Lying on 13.1

[rockscan]

Disclosure is more than financial statements, and if the other side says 'no' - you have more options than saying "doh well".

Hence my comment previously that they could file a motion. Or for those having disclosure requested that is not necessary in light of form 13, saying no.

And why I asked the question, how do you prove your request is valid if you don’t have proof? For example “the kids say they’ve gone into these banks with their mom”. Is that enough proof to file a motion for disclosure.

[StillPaying]

And just to bring this full circle, your understanding of disclosure is off to say the least. You asking 5 times doesn't help. Your premise is off; you don't need proof in order to get disclosure of the proof. Most of this is basic disclosure which a conference judge would order, no motion needed.

I've done my best to explain it. I provided a link. Tayken and OL have both chimed in, yet your question remains. I wish you peace on your journey.

[Kkc]

hi

so i think there are certain forms that can go to banks with the question does so an so have an account, they must answer yes or no. I have banker friends who have advised.

My mom is a forensics accountant. It is also important to know if there was money stashed away during the marriage or nesting period.

She claims she has 0 income..this is almost an invitation for full access to her bank accounts...

Her lawyer asked for the minimal and I buried him in 600 pages worth of stuff that would cost 1000s to go through only to discover it is clean.

If someone claims poverty but has hidden assets...
If rent payments or car payments suddenly disappear...
If grocery bills suddenly change (meaning someone is living there)...

There's so many things to be uncovered and my mom can do it.

My main question though...if she omits a bank account on a 13.1 and we later discover it..what are the consequences?

[blinkandimgone]

And just to bring this full circle, your understanding of disclosure is off to say the least. You asking 5 times doesn't help. Your premise is off; you don't need proof in order to get disclosure of the proof. Most of this is basic disclosure which a conference judge would order, no motion needed.

I've done my best to explain it. I provided a link. Tayken and OL have both chimed in, yet your question remains. I wish you peace on your journey.

I'm gonna disagree here, as you said previously, 13.1 is ro get in the door and ideally all parties DO provide full disclosure, but we know that isn't always the case. And sometimes it is the case and one side insists there is more to disclose, at which point they'd ask a judge to order it, with a sound basis for doing so.

"Because I want it" isn't a sound basis, you'd need to provide information to support your claim that you believe that the other party is not being forthcoming with all of the info.

The question still remains, what's the threshold there, is the kids saying the parent went into different banks enough? And how do you provide enough basis when you don't have specifics like bank account numbers or even partial account numbers? You really can't just walk into a bank and request someone else's info, or run a credit report on someone else without their consent.

And on the flip side, if you're the spouse being asked for more disclosure and there's nothing left to disclose but the other side insists without a sound basis, how do you prove a negative?


As for consequences for lying on a 13.1, there isn't a lot, to be honest. I mean, there is, but you don't often see it applied, much like other transgressions in family court - so many opportunities are given in pursuit of just getting things moved towards a settlement. Not that it doesn't happen ever, just not a lot. One major consequence is that it does get noticed, and erodes your credibility with the court.

[StillPaying]

"Because I want it" isn't a sound basis, you'd need to provide information to support your claim that you believe that the other party is not being forthcoming with all of the info.

You'd most likely request more disclosure based on their financial statement. Not out of thin air.

You should provide documents which back up the information that you have listed in your financial statement. Supporting documents include things like:

proof of income from all sources;
recent pay stubs;
copies of your income tax returns (notice of assessment, recent tax returns, notices of reassessment) with all schedules and attachments;
bank statements;
credit card statements;
mortgage documents;
line of credit statements;
money owed to you;
business interests;
property assessment notices;
Copies of all bank, RRSP, and investment accounts.

This is not a complete list of the documents that may be required to understand a party’s financial situation as the documents you need to produce will depend on the particular facts of your family law case.

These are basic requests which shouldn't need court but can be made into a order without ever seeing a judge. Again, not making things up, but getting a full financial picture in order to properly move on with the case.

Think - if this request/reason was true, would it make a difference to the issues.

As for consequences for lying on a 13.1 and erosion of your credibility with the court, if you fail to disclosure, lie, or hide your assets, you risk a judge making an adverse inference against you. This means that the judge may grant your ex spouse more of the family assets, impute a higher income on you, or grant costs or special costs against you.