Paying Grandma to Babysit?

[kate331]

So my proposed Christmas schedule didnt go over well, where we split the school holiday and each pay for our own daycare. I already have my daycare arranged (mostly Grandma, and a support worker for a few hours in the afternoon).

If I have to cover daycare his week, can I pay Grandma? I remember my lawyer saying this is a grey area a while back, when I wasnt working crazy hours. I cant get any extra time off my new job, I am low man on the seniority list.

[iona6656]

I'd go ahead and do it.

I paid my mom $800/month when D2 was not in preschool yet cause she was my full time caregiver when I was at work.

I currently pay her $250/month or before school and afterschool care.

I'm claiming these as s7 expenses. I would've had to find childcare. Ex didn't offer.

[mom22girls]

You CAN pay Grandma, but I don’t think it would count as a section seven expense, especially if she’s been doing it for free in the past.


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[kate331]

You CAN pay Grandma, but I don’t think it would count as a section seven expense, especially if she’s been doing it for free in the past.

She has been doing it in passed for free. My ex and I cannot agree on a Holiday schedule and this is now year 3, its getting ridiculous. I need to move forward, so I think I will just drop the access schedule for school breaks, and start submitting Section 7 daycare expenses.

I am sure if I do try and claim them, ex will submit Section 7 Daycare for the 2 Saturdays he has them a month (he works Saturdays), as his gf babysits. So he can pay 1/2 the expenses for my Mom, and I suspect I will be on the hook for paying his gf.

The madness of it all!!! I'm frustrated.....

[mom22girls]

.



I am sure if I do try and claim them, ex will submit Section 7 Daycare for the 2 Saturdays he has them a month (he works Saturdays), as his gf babysits. So he can pay 1/2 the expenses for my Mom, and I suspect I will be on the hook for paying his gf.



The madness of it all!!! I'm frustrated.....

I know a teenage babysitter isn’t an option due to special needs, but I’m thinking a teenage Grandma’s helper would count, especially if Grandma is getting older and is struggling to keep up. That would at least take some of the stress off Grandma?


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[kate331]

Thats not a bad idea, I usually arrange for a worker to come in afternoons to take the kids out (we live in an apartment, and I dont want them coped up all day) but I could have a teenagers here during the mornings to play games and some crafts. I cant trust a teenager to take them outside, not to mention CAS would be on my case. I also doubt a teenager would give me a receipt?

Grandma is great, she is 57 and still young, but this is NOT what she wants to do full-time. She has her own plans and dreams that include being a Grandmother, she just didn't count on being the full-time caregiver. I need to stop thinking my ex is going to change, and think of solutions. I appreciate everyone advice. And yup, I am going to throw every Section 7 daycare/babysitting expense his way, including Grandmas new fees, and see whats sticks

[Mom 2 Two]

Thats not a bad idea, I usually arrange for a worker to come in afternoons to take the kids out (we live in an apartment, and I dont want them coped up all day) but I could have a teenagers here during the mornings to play games and some crafts. I cant trust a teenager to take them outside, not to mention CAS would be on my case. I also doubt a teenager would give me a receipt?



Grandma is great, she is 57 and still young, but this is NOT what she wants to do full-time. She has her own plans and dreams that include being a Grandmother, she just didn't count on being the full-time caregiver. I need to stop thinking my ex is going to change, and think of solutions. I appreciate everyone advice. And yup, I am going to throw every Section 7 daycare/babysitting expense his way, including Grandmas new fees, and see whats sticks

Get your mom to give you receipts. And claim away!! Dads gf that lives with him couldn’t possibly Count for her to be paid.


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[kate331]

Get your mom to give you receipts. And claim away!! Dads gf that lives with him couldn’t possibly Count for her to be paid.

Yes, my Mom would give me receipts, and probably just buy more groceries with the money

I am not sure though if I did this ex wouldn't claim receipts for his girlfriend. My Mom doesn't live with us I'm not sure if that makes any difference. Grandma does incur GO transit costs commuting.

[denbigh]

do you use grandma becasue it is hard to find a daycare that will take children with special needs?
does the girlfriend live in the house?

[kate331]

do you use grandma becasue it is hard to find a daycare that will take children with special needs?
does the girlfriend live in the house?

Yes, its actually more for S8, he goes to a special needs school that does not have before and after school care. He would have to be bused back and forth from our home school which has daycare, that is the school boards policy, currently there is no room at that daycare, nor would they be equipped to handle his behaviour, he has a SIP worker with him all day at school, that is not provided at a daycare program. He has difficulties on the bus as it is, its a long commute and often gets suspended from the bus, and then Grandma does the driving. S4 does attend his home school daycare with little issues although I do keep him home sometimes on PA days & Holidays so he can enjoy an outing with his brother especially if I have a qualified worker at hand so they can enjoy and participate within their community. Currently S4 daycare is subsidized but I am going to loose the subsidy and start paying for it.

Currently my Mom babysits S8 after school, all PA days and now the Christmas break. The solution in the future would be to hire a Nanny, in the meantime I need to cover the Christmas Break, I think my ex should contribute something. I thought my original proposal to split the school holiday in 1/2 and cover our own daycare was reasonable, his lawyer sent a letter stating he can only take them 3 days, Christmas Eve, Christmas Day & Boxing Day, I'm already off 2 of those days and wont have daycare expenses on those days.

Yes, my ex lives with his girlfriend.

[tunnelight]

The challenge for you in court will be the following arguments:

Grandma is not a qualified licensed daycare provider.

Grandma is not a business and charging taxes, so you are paying her more than you would have otherwise paid given daycare tax returns.

Grandma is not a neutral 3rd party.

Grandma could be writing fake receipts, and not actually collecting from you. Dad could easily be getting scammed by you and grandma (not saying that you would do this)


The worst thing of all, dad could turn around and get fake receipts from his girlfriend, and start seeking charges from you.

Not worth the battle and drama in my opinion. Save your energy for other and better things, such as focusing on your career.

[iona6656]

The challenge for you in court will be the following arguments:

Grandma is not a qualified licensed daycare provider.

Grandma is not a business and charging taxes, so you are paying her more than you would have otherwise paid given daycare tax returns.

Grandma is not a neutral 3rd party.

Grandma could be writing fake receipts, and not actually collecting from you. Dad could easily be getting scammed by you and grandma (not saying that you would do this)


The worst thing of all, dad could turn around and get fake receipts from his girlfriend, and start seeking charges from you.

Not worth the battle and drama in my opinion. Save your energy for other and better things, such as focusing on your career.

Do you have case law to back up your position because I disagree.

Because they don't need to be licensed if they are watching under 2 kids.

Also CRA maintains the position that paying grandparents for child care also qualifies under the Child Care Expenses Deduction.

Doesn't matter that grandmother isn't a neutral third party.

I've been reading family case law like it's my second job- because it HAS become my second job. And I don't see anything that prohibits or even deals with claiming grandparent babysitting as a section 7 expense.

Also- let's look at common sense here.

Kate would gladly allow dad to provide extra childcare in place of paying grandma for babysitting. He doesn't want it. So she would require babysitting or childcare that can handle special needs kids. It's probably really hard or prohibitively expensive to get that. Also- it's their grandmother- I'm sure the court would look favourably on grandma if there has been no issues with her as care in the past. And if there was- Dad was at liberty to raise that before. Has he?

I think as long as Grandma isn't being paid an exorbitant amount- it's totally a valid claim.

[kate331]

I get what your saying Tunnellight, but at some point he either has to take the kids or pay someone to do it on what should be his time. We do have a court approved babysitter (from our last motion) she is qualified and knows the children well, she is willing to babysit at either homes. Problem is she comes with a $24 an hour price tag. That's $12 an hour each, so yes I tend to use my Mom on my time to keep expenses under control. She also needs to be booked well in advance as she works for multi families and also works for the school board.

That's the problem, its hard to focus on a career, when the brunt of childcare is on one parent, nobody is calling him to come pick up a sick or misbehaving child, because that never occurs on any of his time. He doesn't have to scramble for babysitters. He's been giving a free ride up until now because he knows Grandma will do it for free. I just dont think its fair Grandma has to now cover what should be his time with the kids for free.

Thanks for your insight Iona. No there is no issues with Grandma babysitting, in fact at the beginning of our separation when I wasn't coping well it was CAS who contacted my my Mom as part of their plan asking for her help, the ex was totally on board with Grandma helping too. I was planning on paying my Mom minimum wage of $14.00 and split the cost 50/50 with ex.

Either way I need daycare for his week during the Christmas Break, either my Mom does it for $14.00 an hour (with some help or a break, I can cover that with Respite funds) or the $24.00 an hour babysitter does it.

[iona6656]

I get what your saying Tunnellight, but at some point he either has to take the kids or pay someone to do it on what should be his time. We do have a court approved babysitter (from our last motion) she is qualified and knows the children well, she is willing to babysit at either homes. Problem is she comes with a $24 an hour price tag. That's $12 an hour each, so yes I tend to use my Mom on my time to keep expenses under control. She also needs to be booked well in advance as she works for multi families and also works for the school board.

That's the problem, its hard to focus on a career, when the brunt of childcare is on one parent, nobody is calling him to come pick up a sick or misbehaving child, because that never occurs on any of his time. He doesn't have to scramble for babysitters. He's been giving a free ride up until now because he knows Grandma will do it for free. I just dont think its fair Grandma has to now cover what should be his time with the kids for free.

Thanks for your insight Iona. No there is no issues with Grandma babysitting, in fact at the beginning of our separation when I wasn't coping well it was CAS who contacted my my Mom as part of their plan asking for her help, the ex was totally on board with Grandma helping too. I was planning on paying my Mom minimum wage of $14.00 and split the cost 50/50 with ex.

Either way I need daycare for his week during the Christmas Break, either my Mom does it for $14.00 an hour (with some help or a break, I can cover that with Respite funds) or the $24.00 an hour babysitter does it.

Do it.

I will be doing it soon- and I'll let you know how it goes.

Ex's lawyer requested receipts- I tracked all my e-transfers to my mom and tagged them with the line- "Babysitting for August, 2018"- and I am doing the same with before and afterschool care.

Also- I've been sending Ex messages on OFW since the beginning saying that we need to pay my mom a fair wage as she was doing us a favour before and that has to stop and she can't afford to just retire and spend her time watching D2.

Let's put all of that in front of a judge on a motion.

I'm not even asking to pay her the cost of a private nanny. I researched and put together options which I sent to my ex and copied his counsel- the cost of a nanny, the cost of home daycare, the cost of a daycare centre, I used this website https://www.ontario.ca/page/find-and-pay-child-care and care.com.. to show how much costs would be. Then I said- $800/month is VERY reasonable.

We would've had to have a nanny or some kind of private/semi-private kind of childcare too because of daughter's allergies- severe eczema and other medical issues. We could afford and were planning on doing just that- full time nanny until she was ready for preschool- then part time thereafter.

So make sure to document everything reasonable you've tried- and imagine you're putting together an affidavit of all the reasonable steps you've taken. You're not trying to take advantage of the situation to get your ex to pay your mom.

[tunnelight]

Also CRA maintains the position that paying grandparents for child care also qualifies under the Child Care Expenses Deduction.

Doesn't matter that grandmother isn't a neutral third party.

Line 214 - Child care expenses:

When the child care services are provided by an individual, the individual cannot be:

the eligible child's father or mother;

a person under 18 years of age who is related to you.

A person is related to you if he or she is connected to you by a blood relationship, marriage or common-law partnership, or adoption. For example, your brother, sister, brother-in-law, sister-in-law, and your or your spouse's or common-law partner's child are related to you. However, your niece, nephew, aunt, and uncle are not.

Something to be careful of, is the below snippet from the same page, if relevant to your situation:

Notes
If you paid an individual to provide child care in your home, you may have some responsibilities as an employer. If you are not sure of your situation, contact the CRA.