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Complete Fabrication

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  • Complete Fabrication

    Ok. My disclaimer before I start. I know that in family law there is no such thing such as perjury and the consequences for pretty much anything are pretty minimal.

    I have had tremendous success on custody in most part due to 1) the fact that I am a good Dad and a decent guy and 2) my ex lost credibility pretty much every time she made a statement.

    All of that behind us on Custody and Access we now move to Financial.

    Despite signing what is a very valid pre-nuptial agreement that has almost zero change of being challenged my ex has none the less used legal aid to fight tooth and nail to have this struck down and go for full spousal indefinitely (marriage lasted 5 years).

    Interestingly in her sad attempt to challenge it she invented the claim that we both agreed to create the pre-nup but with the verbal agreement to strike this down a few years later. Why? Who knows. Its weak at best.

    So we had this verbal agreement to kill the pre-nup "one or two years later". Hmmm.

    It gets better. In a sworn document she claims that she went to a lawyer to have a contract written up to have the agreement terminated and then presented this agreement to me. Again I don't know what purpose it serves because if I didn't sign isn't an agreement.

    We both know that this agreement was never written nor presented to me.

    It gets better...then her lawyer sent a question in a disclosure request about this fictitious agreement. It was just too tempting for me knowing full well this document does not exist so I turned around in a form 20 and ask:

    1) Please produce said document.
    2) Please produce any billing notes, invoices, receipts for legal work done on it.

    You will never guess the answer to 1 and 2.

    1) My client gave you the LAST copy she had and you never returned it. So now this document does not exist. (???)

    2) The lawyer did not charge her because you never signed it.

    Wow. This is the first lawyer in the history of lawyers to produce work on the off chance and on sheer faith that the client's ex might sign it.

    My question now is...if I press this issue I can ask for the name, address of the lawyer. Ask for a summons to the questioning that the lawyer seems to desperately wanting to do and/or ask to get a sworn statement to the effect that he did or did not produce this document.

    All of this would be at a minimum very embarrassing for my ex and at best...if her lawyer is paying attention might want to make sure to shut this whole thing down.

    My gut tells me that making up lies about what he/she said is one thing but fabricating the existence of a document is a small step closer to the dark side.

    Is this bad for her?

  • #2
    I would think she will get absolutely nowhere with this as the onus is on her to provide proof - which she apparently has none of.

    What lawyer didn't keep a copy of said document in the client's file? Absolutely ask for the lawyer's contact information, if she insists on pursuing this avenue. She will be forced to make something up - or invent a death of said lawyer - and that can be verified as well. Should she not be able to remember the name of the lawyer, one could assume that it really wasn't that important to her as she did nothing to pursue it and can't even remember who counsel was - much less produce a document or proof a document existed.

    This almost sounds too easy to watch her dig the hole and jump right in.


    • #3

      Sorry to hear that she is putting you through all this Head, but it's actually good for you that your ex and her current lawyer would even pursue this! It makes both of them look like idiots.

      Is there any chance your ex actually believes her fabrications to the point that she is delusional (alternate reality)?

      Let her twist in the wind after the ridiculous response from the lawyer that you were given the "last" copy and like Blink said, see how much deeper she digs the hole.

      IMHO this is well past vindictive ex, this is getting into Borderline Personality territory.
      Last edited by YoungDad23; 08-18-2015, 12:23 PM. Reason: clarification


      • #4
        It's a game Head. Art and Crafts and lies.

        I wonder if she went to the lengths of forging?

        Search out the lawyer .. I agree with Blink .. it will dig up more lies and inconsistencies.

        Gawd .. does it ever end? Get a nice cup of green tea, kick your feet up and smile. We may be in for a lifetime of this stuff.


        • #5
          Yes I believe she is delusional.

          So maybe I leave it but if there is any more requests for disclosure (which I feel has reached well past the point of fishing expedition now) then I will bring it up.

          I will ask for the name of lawyer, a letter from him stating that such a document was created.

          It would be worth pressing it for the sake of credibility. She also has over $20,000 wired over seas claiming it was a loan but can't produce any supporting documents.

          Not that I would pursue the charge. But would her lawyer begin to see this as a possible perjury situation? I am hoping to hold this in my back pocket as..."we don't want to go to trial do we?"


          • #6
            Originally posted by Headwaters1 View Post
            It would be worth pressing it for the sake of credibility. She also has over $20,000 wired over seas claiming it was a loan but can't produce any supporting documents.
            I hope that she's given that gem to you in writing. She's admitted to having both an asset, and an income stream. The court would still include it in her assets, and the the CRA would love to make sure that she declares interest income on it.


            • #7
              Originally posted by Headwaters1 View Post
              Is this bad for her?
              Well, you stated the other party's credibility is already shot. Hopefully the same justice is presiding over the financial matters because the credibility impact will only continue to grow.

              Hearsay evidence is not admissible. Until such time the other party produces tangible evidence to support their hearsay it will never become a "fact". Simply uttering a statement doesn't make it "truthful" because a party said it under oath.

              The other party can make all sorts of claims that are not backed up by evidence. A justice will know how to handle the nonsense and it will only serve to erode the other party's credibility further.

              You may want to consider writing a complaint to the Area Director of Legal Aid advising that the lawyer on file is billing time for no reason and to obtain evidence that simply does not exist and that it may not be a good use of public funds to go after such nonsense. If you do provide a complaint do provide the correspondence with all the nonsense.

              Good Luck!


              • #8
                Your right perjury is what Fam Law is all about too tough to get that in any Courtroom.....but you are referring to a document ....and the under the FLR rules.

                RULE 1

                Certain Orders That may be made at any time

                (7.1) For greater certainty, a court may make an order under subrule (7.2), (8), (8.1) or (8.2) at any time during a case, and the power to make such an order,
                (a) is in addition to any other power to make an order that these rules may specify in the circumstances; and
                (b) exists unless these rules expressly provide otherwise. O. Reg. 69/15, s. 1 (1).

                document that may delay or is inflammatory, etc.

                (8.2) The court may strike out all or part of any document that may delay or make it difficult to have a fair trial or that is inflammatory, a waste of time, a nuisance or an abuse of the court process. O. Reg. 322/13, s. 1.

                Something you could consider trying if you want to be bothered wasting your time

                If a Judge was concerned with RULE 2...Prime Objective....he may get rid of that game of EX and her lawyer.

                Anyways search Canlii for any cases under Rule 1 (8.2)

                And of course etiquette dictates sending a polite letter on invoking Rule 8.2 if the matter on a imaginary agreement doesn't stop.

                Do Judges deal in imaginary documents?.....I dunno I ain't even a lawyer

                It also states in the Rules further down how Judges view stricken imaginary documents at Trial...(that order to strike if done will be in Trial Record of course)
                Last edited by MrToronto; 08-19-2015, 09:30 PM.


                • #9
                  Thank you Tayken and Mr. T. Very helpful.

                  I'll keep you all posted.


                  • #10
                    Yeah I forgot to add for THE educational experience (maybe) over Motion rules 14 in FLR.

                    14B's Direction from a and out quick for PROCEDURAL matters

                    LF32's Courthouse does them every Tuesday and Thursday but that's his Court house.

                    Procedural Matters....I found out (for you) don't end up in Canlii much...LOL

                    DAM and I've never read a 14B form either.....(you should) make good on what ever you write to OP lawyer (back off)

                    I don't know your matter.BUT

                    1) DO imaginary agreements work at Conferences? (both parties can say anything they want there....if they don't want settlement)

                    2) Trials love FACTS ...but Family Law is based on balance of (B.S) probabilities

                    NIP IT IN THE BUD (wieser)

                    A lawyer may keep asking the same insane question (called critical thinking) to get a different answer. (polar opposite to Einstein's Theory of insanity)

                    Maybe after 3,000 different NO's you'll trip up and contradict yourself....LAO lawyers have all the time (money) in the world

                    the 2,999th NO that was different is all that's needed for another day of taxpayer funded Trial

                    or you can stop the fishing expedition(s) via a procedural 14B
                    Last edited by MrToronto; 08-21-2015, 10:59 PM.


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