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  • Post secondary

    Separation agreement states c/s stops "when child is 18 & no longer in full time attendance at school".
    Child now 18, finishing high school. Applied at school, not starting until sept 2016. May take some upgrading courses in fall.
    Does child support continue? Won't be full time student for another year.
    Ex has severed all contact (except when needs money - will email), alienated child from father completely. They had a good relationship until a financial dispute arose with mother. Suddenly no calls answered or returned, then mom & child call to say "child wants nothing more to do with you".
    Dad has no idea regarding scholarships etc.
    Everything is lies & deceit.
    Should he make her take him to court? She will never be honest & provide correct information to him.

  • #2
    Post secondary

    Is he with a maintenance agency (i.e. FRO or MEP)? Does he know child has applied to school?

    ETA: I just reread your post. If kid is still registered in high school as a full time student next year shes still considered in school so cs continues. If you dont think its full time, you can request proof of registration but anything but one class per term is considered full time. The rest of what I said holds true for August 2016.

    My advice: keep the CS payments in effect until August. At the end of August, send either an email or a registered letter to mom and kid stating that unless you receive proof of registration for post secondary you will stop cs as of Sept 1. With respect to paying your portion of the expenses, when she comes looking for the money, you tell her you need a statement of account, receipts and proof of scholarships etc.

    You dont pay anything unless you have proof shes in school and proof of the expense.

    If hes with FRO he contacts them in August and lets them know he isnt aware kid is in school and then they contact mom for proof. Not sure how it works with MEP.

    Keep trying to reach out to kid though. Demonstrate he does still care and he wants to support her and perhaps the two of them can work together. Even if its not about school, keep reaching out. "Hi how are you thinking of you Im here if you would like to talk." Etc.

    You dont need court to force her to produce receipts (in my opinion). If she wants the money she will provide them. Sending that request demonstrates he wants to work together. No proof no pay.

    *just my opinion* my partner went through this this year. He knows his kid is in school so cs continues. He hasnt paid his share of the expense because he doesnt have receipts.
    Last edited by rockscan; 05-22-2015, 09:24 AM.

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    • #3
      Also to add, look through the forums for more info on post secondary. There are a few threads with different info in them. What we were told: post secondary costs are split as 1/3 to the kid then the remaining 2/3 split according to income less tax benefits. Scholarships or other awards (like the 30% off ontario awards) come off the top. A joint resp between the parents comes off their portion if its principle. If its grant money it goes to kid. Kid gets any and all grant money awarded for their portion.

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      • #4
        Graduating high school this June. Her comment was "may upgrade some courses next year". She will never be honest. She lied about dental coverage, and wanted hubby to give her $5000 for cost. Of course, we went through our insurance & then found out multiple plans he is covered on. It's a lost cause I'm afraid , she has alienated him before when she didn't get her way & each time the lies to her kid are worse & worse. Sad thing is he has a sibling he doesn't even know.

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        • #5
          Post secondary

          Then definitely tell her you want proof of registration from the school board or CS stops. But remember, even two courses is considered full time for high school. A victory lap isnt worth the fight over but you can demand proof. As for university, no proof no pay.

          My partner went through it, even going so far as to contact the doctors offices for receipts. He wont be doing that again. Hes with FRO now and funny, ex can produce receipts for them!

          If youre not with a maintenance agency, stop the $ until you get proof. If you are with a maintenance agency, advise them and they will request the proof. High school victory laps are difficult now because of the limited course load but she will have a registration from the school board. Let the cs continue through August showing good faith. Then drop the hammer in September when she doesnt provide you with proof. More than likely kid is going back and ex is just messing with you guys now to get her kicks.

          Like I said though, have him keep reaching out. Kid will come around. My siblings were shocked when I started speaking to my father again!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by rockscan View Post
            But remember, even two courses is considered full time for high school. A victory lap isnt worth the fight over but you can demand proof. As for university, no proof no pay.
            When I went to school 2 courses was part time, 3 was full time.

            But I agree, victory laps have generally be found by the courts to be in the kids best interests to improve their grades, and as such, c/s should continue.

            I also agree that until you are provided with proof of enrollment in the victory lap year, or provided receipts for post secondary education, you cease c/s. If nothing else, it should light a candle under the ex's butt get you the stuff you need.

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            • #7
              Post Secondary is a total mess to litigate to a proper conclusion thru the Court.

              Any plausible scholastic endeavor by "junior" even with huge breaks and/or part time atendance is "acceptable" to Judges as long as it's leading somewhere.

              Hostile EX's with adult kids have a arsenal of "grey area" excuses that Judges accept without question.

              Judges poke holes in Seperation Agreement language (not clear enough) to ensure "junior" gets the money.

              When Court is over ...college is typically over (2yrs.)....and legal expenses may equal the post secondary costs.

              Judges allow one degree, diploma , or certificate... typically... which means patiently waiting for that to occur

              Document and save the requests for school information....although you already know the info on junior (asking for the proper paperwork goes no where but maybe filler for a Court Brief)

              Your only path forward will be asking for TRANSCRIPTS this is what a Judge wants to see it's the ONLY acceptable proof of school.

              You PAY no school costs until EX makes a request (she won't child support is usually more)

              Post Secondary is a minefield for adult kids becuase most drop out after first year or change courses...so lots of leeway has to be given (for kid and EX antics) before going to Court to face a (kid sympathetic) Judge to have "child of the marriage" status ended.

              Wait and be patient is my advice
              Last edited by MrToronto; 05-22-2015, 11:04 AM.

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              • #8
                Thanks for advice. I don't understand these women who lie & completely alienate their children from their fathers, yet constantly have their hand out demanding money.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Buttercup123 View Post
                  Thanks for advice. I don't understand these women who lie & completely alienate their children from their fathers, yet constantly have their hand out demanding money.

                  It's not an unreasonable demand. Dad is obligated to pay CS if Kid is in high school full-time, and obligated to contribute to postsecondary education. These obligations exist whether or not Mom is a nice person. Mom is within her rights to ask Dad to make these payments, and Dad is within his rights to ask for proof of enrollment before he does so.

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                  • #10
                    I'm not saying no to entitlement it's just never honest. Only contact is for money, called him a cash card, deadbeat, bad father, said my child "should not have been born"if she didn't get the payment she wanted.
                    The times he just handed $$ over on her word, then got laughed at by her when he realized she lied. It's just hard sometimes

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                    • #11
                      Post Secondary is a Court game that is dependent on the amount of support reciever B.S that didn't come true over school from the recent past.

                      It's all money in the bank because when the school transcripts aren't there to support the support then it moves to "deals" and conditions and or support termination.

                      Victory lap is the first transcript I'd try to get, my understanding is it's done to get into something like a university....not college.

                      If it's a game to use the victory lap to continue support...it'll show up in the 2016 transcript. (no show) or (2 credits)....applied to college later anyways didn't need a victory lap.

                      The support reciever will know when thier goose is cooked by having there hand in the cookie jar to long (and give up)

                      Judges boot support reciepents out the door when there are no transcripts but will entertian lousy ones if junior can get a plan together ..but it'll have conditions attached by a Judge.

                      Maybe the strained relationship between kid parent can heal when pressures around support ease off. (just for optic's sake)

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Buttercup123 View Post
                        Thanks for advice. I don't understand these women who lie & completely alienate their children from their fathers, yet constantly have their hand out demanding money.
                        I'm going through the same situation. The problem is called having your cake and eating it too. My ex wants 100% custody of her kids. She's apparently done the same thing to her ex husband as well - and he still lives in the same city as her.

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                        • #13
                          Welcome to my partners reality. Where its ok to treat dad like shit and then show up to collect money/gifts and then go back to treating him like shit. Yet when dad says "hey wait a minute, Im your father not a bank", the kids get all indignant saying what a horrible father he is and how he ruined their lives. Or how mom tells them he stole all her money, wont pay support, questions all her financial requests and then kids cant do what they want because he wont pay for it.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by rockscan View Post
                            Welcome to my partners reality. Where its ok to treat dad like shit and then show up to collect money/gifts and then go back to treating him like shit. Yet when dad says "hey wait a minute, Im your father not a bank", the kids get all indignant saying what a horrible father he is and how he ruined their lives. Or how mom tells them he stole all her money, wont pay support, questions all her financial requests and then kids cant do what they want because he wont pay for it.
                            I've been going thru this behaviour for the last 5 years. It's so sad. My kids will just stop talking to me all together when things seem normal. I'm not paying CS anymore (kids are adults). I'm just waiting until the day SS finally ends. Everything you mentioned is what I continue to go thru. The only day the youngest remembers is Christmas. My birthday and Father's Day goes by every year. Spent over $125g's putting my youngest thru hockey leading to junior A hockey and never got offered free tickets to watch him. The ex told him that I could go f--- myself I can buy them. The list goes on.... It's the brainwashing that killed our relationship for the sake of money and the lies. The sad thing is my kids know it but choose to run back to their mother. I'm at the point is to let them figure it out on their own. Too stressful,

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                            • #15
                              We had a chat about this tonight. Hes having another rough go of it with being ignored. Keeps saying to me "how can they forget what I was to them?" Or "dont they want a father in their life?" I struggle to remind him its the influence from others that has stopped those feelings. It IS really sad. Its conversations like that where I hope that karma exists and one day his ex feels this pain too. I know that makes me petty but cutting a parent out of a childs life just because youre angry or resentful or whatever isnt any better.

                              Comment

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