University - the what ifs - case law help please!

[beentheredonethis]

my partner is currently in court with his ex. They never had a separation agreement, things only got ugly when he and I got married.

Anywho. The two of them had never thought, nor had the financial means to pay for university for their children, They made small contributions to an RESP for both children and that was intended to be what they would contribute. that was it.
Well lo and behold, the oldest child now wants to attend university (ironically where we live) but wants to live in residence (not with us).

We do NOT, I repeat, do NOT have the financial means to contribute 1/3 to tuition and residence costs. The intention was always to contribute via the RESP and that was all.

Getting a second job (for my partner) is not an option (he works 50 hours a week already), and they are not financially my responsibility (I have my own children to be financially responsible for, I cannot work more hours to support his, sorry).

He cannot get a line of credit, or a loan, or anything to afford paying out $8000 in 5 months time. It's just not feasible. Our monthly budget has no wiggle room (well I guess we could stop eating...always an option).

I have not found case law where this even matters however. University is an entitlement apparently (I wish I had known this when I OSAP'ed and worked 3 jobs to get my butt through university!).

Does anyone have case law that backs up just not being able to afford this expense? As an aside, the child will not have her 1/3 to contribute either, and I fail to see how the ex will either.

Thanks in advance

[blinkandimgone]

He can try making a claim for undue hardship, however at that point your income gets included in the calculation of household income.

[rockscan]

The child is going to have to apply for OSAP. She has to pay for 1/3 of the cost herself and if both parents are in financial difficulties, she will more than likely be eligible.

Also sorry to say that your partner and his ex are both on the hook as well. Undue hardship aside, hes responsible for a share of the cost. As is his ex.

The three of them are going to have to sit down and have a serious talk about how this is going to get paid for and if kid will have to defer for a year. She needs to get a job NOW and mom and dad both need to start working on how to pay for it.

Sorry but you'll be hard pressed to find any case law that says you can get out of paying. She wants to go to school then someone has to pay for it. Mom and kid cant expect dad to foot the bill and kid cant expect mom and dad to pay it. Thats the reality of divorce.

Hey, shes lucky she wasnt like me, my dad skipped town, there was no FRO, and my mom was on ODSP. I finished paying all my student loans back at 34. Good news was I got a pretty awesome job with my BA and post grad degree from college.

[arabian]

do either parents have university education (judges do consider this)?

[beentheredonethis]

Mom just completed a college program.
dad has highschool education only. never had an opportunity to pursue further as they had the oldest child quite young

Child has indicated she won't apply for OSAP because she does not want any debt when she leaves school

at Rockscan - my ex pays nothing in support....I mean sweet FA. Don't talk to me about how lucky my step children are. I am aware
I paid my way through a degree and a college diploma with no parental assistance, $25000 worth of OSAP and 3 jobs to support myself. stomping of one's foot and saying one does not wish any debt makes me laugh.

FYI - mom and kid DO expect dad to foot the bill.

[rockscan]

Good luck to her then trying to get money because in just about every single case, kid has to pay a portion of the cost regardless of how she feels about loans. His best bet is to work out what the portion he would pay is (his S7 %) of 2/3 the cost and offer her that with a breakdown (i.e. Two installments over the 8 months) plus a reminder his cs will be reduced during the year. If mom and kid dont have money to pay the bill when it comes in, theyre SOL. As it stands, theyll have to give dad the receipt for him to pay his portion and if they didnt pay the deposit, she'll get kicked out.

If hes currently in court right now then he will probably get some sort of an order for cs and s7 expenses. Make sure he gets the order to outline post secondary costs!

My comment wasnt a dig at you or your partner. It was toward his kids and his ex who think hes obligated to provide a blank cheque. They are on the hook for their share of the costs. If kid wants to go to school, she better figure out fast how SHE is going to contribute. My partners kid said pretty much the same thing. Her OSAP application made it in on deadline day.

[HammerDad]

In order for your spouse to avoid having to pay his proportional share, he would have to make a claim of undue hardship, which is an extremely steep hill to climb.

You will have to prove that your regular expenses have maxed out your capability to pay. And by regular, I mean food, mortgage/rent, a regular car, gas etc. Cell phones with data plans, that is a luxury. Multiple cars, unless both are need in order to work, also a luxury. Boats, cottages, campers etc. all a luxury and thus would be used against you. Hell, cable TV with an premium packages is a luxury.

You are likely going to have to reserve yourself to understanding you will have to pay towards it. Your spouse will have to pay his proportional share of 2/3rds of the amount. So if your spouse and his ex make the same money, it would 1/3rd each. If your spouse makes more than his ex, expect to pay more.

Has the child received and bursaries or scholarships? If they have, those funds would form part of the child's contribution. The amount contributed to RESP's will count as part of the parents share, the benefit from government on top is generally considered part of the child's share. The child should also be looking into finding and reductions that they may qualify for. Those reductions would come off the top of the cost and benefit everyone.

This is why I started paying into an RESP when my kid was still an infant. I knew I either pay a little now, or pay a lot later. Because the way the court sees it, it is better the parents pay for their kids education then the public.

Edit - also, I agree with Rock above. Your spouse should work something out that he pays over time. You also require a receipt for the full payment. Should the child/ex not be able to come up with their share, the child won't get enrolled and all funds would be reimbursed.

Also, c/s would get reduced by a good amount while the child is in school. They can't expect you to pay for food and accommodation while at school and full c/s. That is double dipping. You pay a reduced amount of c/s for the period the child lives away, because you're paying for those accommodations and food etc.

[mcdreamy]

the kid should be congratulated for being accepted, given the parent educational histories.

You won't find caselaw to assist you in avoiding payment.

Keep in mind, the combined income from the custodial home determines the kid's qualification for OSAP - and you will find caselaw wherein judges agree students shouldn't have to go into large amounts of debt when they have two parents to pay.

[beentheredonethis]

Our budget is maxed to the hilt. Yes we have cell phones, but no home. Basic cable.

I struggle with the whole argument of we live like paupers to provide a lavish lifestyle, but I get it...it doesn't matter.

We both require cars, my husband commutes, and while I could take a bus, I won't in order to finance the step children's education. I am responsible for my car payment, he for his. He is not financially responsible for my children, therefore I am not for his. Nobody is touching my vehicle, or telling me to take a bus so a child can have an education (well I guess a judge could).

and yes, increasing our output every month would drop the only variable bill, groceries, to 150 a month...to feed a family of 5. hello food bank.
I guess the 8 year old could drop out of school to save on daycare costs to watch the baby. I mean we could cut costs SOMEWHERE. All in the name of child wanting to live in residence. When we live in the same city. and I work at said institution.

[beentheredonethis]

@mcdreamy - she hasn't been accepted yet - we will certainly be proud of her when the time comes.
I will be equally proud of her when she shows us how she plans to pay for her portion.

And given the fact that one parent didn't pursue post secondary so he could do anything he could to support his child and worked his way up to an 80,000 a year job...I say good for him too. And good for mom for going back later in life.

Combined income in custodial home could make it challenging for stepchild. They make considerably more than we do.
She may want to live with us.

[standing on the sidelines]

I know that a friend of mine his wife works at a university here in the city. Due to that the child got a deep discount on her tuition. Have you looked into seeing if your job provides the same benefits?

[rockscan]

You already said youre in court now as there was no agreement. Dad is probably going through some financial discovery as is mom. If he MADE a high income before but makes less currently due to disability the court will take the info into consideration either by imputing his income or taking his current income. That will determine cs and s7 portion.

Right now if he should be pushing for financial info from mom to determine s7 portions and also for an order that includes how they will deal with post secondary. Having it spelled out for mom may help her see that she and kid are responsible.

Dont go for hardship because its a steep hill to climb and no guarantee it will work. Right now his best bet is an actual order. Also read the FCSG particularly the parts on expenses and "reasonable contribution from the child". Regardless of how kid feels, she will have to contribute whether its through scholarships, bursaries, gifts from other family members or loans. The school doesnt care who it gets paid by, it just gets paid or kid gets kicked out.

You could offer a roof for kid to reduce residence costs but from the sounds of it kid will say no.

Dad WILL have to pay a portion. What the portion of 2/3 of the expense will be determined by his and moms income. It may not seem fair but unfortunately thats the law.

[beentheredonethis]

I know that a friend of mine his wife works at a university here in the city. Due to that the child got a deep discount on her tuition. Have you looked into seeing if your job provides the same benefits?

Yes, it's part of the reason I work very hard to remain employed here.

The discount is not deep but there is one, but it doesn't touch residence cost.

As for dad paying 1/3...I understand what the law says, but the law needs to give it's head a shake. If there is no money, there is no money.

I look forward to starving my 3 children because of the law.

[HappyMomma]

Sorry, but would a judge really rule that you have to pay for residence? Tuition I can see but residence is a luxery - not a requirement if the child has a place to stay. That's crazy!

It sickens me to see divorced parents on the hook for this. I paid my way through university as a single mom. In the end I had 65K in student loans. Yep. 65K. Thank god I took a degree that pays decently.

[beentheredonethis]

well apparently. and even if it means that there are 3 other kids living on the streets and eating at the food bank to make it happen.
it's the right of the child.

I am not begrudging child support (heck I wish a Judge had awarded me a little when he was handing my ex everything, saddling me with the marital debt and saying good luck!), but I think sometimes the guidelines go a little far. Coming up with "extra savings" for university (which by the way my husband was doing) while paying child support, is hard to do. You hand over a third of your income, sometimes more. Then try to save up another 26,000 for school (that just for one kid) on 7 months notice? give me a break.