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  • Next step for Non payment of Sextion 7 Daycare

    Background:
    Daycare is required for B2 1/2 for Mom to work
    It was agreed by email. that each month daycare invoice is forwarded to Dad and he would remit his portion by 15th of each month. Daycare issues a receipt monthly by email ( pfd document). Daycare provider have said they cannot Issue 2 receipts despite being asked on numerous occasion. But will send a year end summary each January to allow verification of invoices sent.
    NCP did not pay for 8 months and then paid the arrears after many request from Mom through email and her lawyer at that time, which of course cost $$$.
    Now Dad has again ignored the expense and now not paid for past 10 months.
    His reasons:
    1. citing his belief Mom has altered the invoices, which is completlly unfounded
    2. he then decided he was not in agreement with child being placed in daycare.
    3. finally because he has legal bills of his own to pay and feels that he will wait until the total owing in daycare equals his legal bills and then he will consider that debt paid by Mom. ( yes he actually wrote that in an email)

    Each month Mom has forwarded the invoice received from Daycare provider and outlined the agreement clause, the calculation of proportionate amounts due and noted the arrears balance. The email is factual and polite. Requesting Dad provide confirmation of intent to pay.
    Each month it is ignored with the exception of the 3 emails citing his reasons why he is not paying.

    So next steps, because the amount is growing and the financial strain on Mom is becoming an issue.

    As with many SA the clause regarding Special Expenses is vague. States the expenses shall be paid in proportion to income. NOA are exchanged for this purpose. With the typical vaque clause it is doubtful FRO will do much. But Mom has faxed an Statement of Arrears and supporting documents ( Invoices and NOA plus a spreadsheet with all calculations made) with the hopes that Dad will receive notice from FRO and realise this is not going away.

    Now need to decide on next step.

    Mom wants to change the clause on Special Expenses and add that with regard to daycare expenses a set amount will be collected through FRO each month and a yearend adjustment will be made for under or overpayments. So based on average monthly daycare and Dads annual income $x will be paid.

    So question: what is the best route to take?

    1. Send Dad Form 15C Consent Motion to Change then submit to court with a 14B Motion form which is sent to Dad and hopefully he will consent. If he does not consent then what? Proceed with Serving court priceedings with a Form 15?, using all the previous documentation as proof of due diligence in requesting the payments.
    Or
    Knowing he will not consent:
    2. File Form 15 Motion to Change and Form 15A Change of Information Form plus supporting documents to family court office and have these document served to Dad with a consent form attached in case he has second thoughts on this. In which case is that the Form 15 C and Form 14 B as well?

  • #2
    Proceed with motion.

    Comment


    • #3
      So update:

      A year later and its settled!

      2 SC, where the judge awarded costs and payments until the motion could be heard! But still no willingess from ex to settle and then just before walking into court.

      Daycare is now paid, at a set amount, through FRO.
      Arrears are being paid off monthly through FRO.
      1/3 of our costs awarded, being collect through FRO
      Child Support will be adjusted based on new evidence of income being understated
      Lawyers made lots of money!

      We netted out a few thousand ahead, once legal fees covered and tax refund on legal fees recovered.

      Ex paid for a pricey (losing lwyer) and has to pay costs and the daycare costs anyway.

      Judge stated, on signing the order, he had no idea why this would ever had come this far! Think anyone learnt anything? i doubt it, but we can live in hope

      Comment


      • #4
        Congratulations, sorry you had to go to those extremes to get it worked out but good on you for pursuing it and nipping this in the bud!

        Comment


        • #5
          Stories like yours keep me going.... so nice to see something positive amid all the acrimony and nonsense... congrats !!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks.

            Keeping things factual and honest really works. I remember in a post recently someone stated that often lawyers cut and past information and screw it up. This was definetly the case the ex's lawyer. Very sloppy work and obvisously ex did not check it, as its hard to keep the lies straight.

            We kept our information very concise and ordered. We gave our lawyer very detailed clear information and then always checked the submission carefully before having them filed.

            The devil is in the detail. LF32 has shown that is the way to go.

            Its also refreshing when judges finally see through the BS and ordered a nice big fat payment. ( actually more than we had asked for) as an interim payment until they could get their act together. Big message so they ran to us with the settlement.

            Do you think its possible that judges actually have a sense of humour and go back to their office chuckling about how they put the fear of god into that bozo!
            Last edited by Beachnana; 10-29-2015, 01:04 AM. Reason: Spelling

            Comment


            • #7
              Beachnana, I'm in the same boat you were. Final order indicates net section 7 is shared proportionately. I can't figure out the calculation! I have 274 excuses from the ex what he disagrees with paying daycare so I would like a set amount to be garnished by FRO (I have sole custody) and he believes he pays me enough in child support (even though financials indicste he made 2x as much money as I did in 2014) How do I calculate the net expense? I have tried a few lawyers but they don't seem to want to do a fee for service. I don't have the $2-4K to put down on a retainer. ..any advice would be much appreciated . Thanks

              Comment


              • #8
                You will need to complete a motion to change to get Fro to enforce a set amount each month.

                1. Calculate your tax rate

                I took the amount I would have received without the daycare and then I calculated how much I would receive with the daycare submitted. Deducted this amount and came up with $1240 which is the amount of refund for the daycare.
                I used a tax program so it was really easy.

                Day care invoices. $4000
                Refund for daycare $1240
                Tax rate 31%

                1240/4000 = 0.31 or 31%.

                2. Calculate your Net Daycare invoice amount



                Ex. Monthly daycare is $800
                31% of $800 = $248
                $800-$248 = $552. Net cost of daycare

                3. Now calculate your proportionate amounts

                Ex. Person a. Salary. $40,000
                Person b. Salary. $30,000

                $40,000+$30,000 = $70,000.

                Person a. 40,000/70,000. = 57%
                Person b. 30,000/70,000 = 43%


                4. Now calculate your proportionate share of daycare

                Person a $800 x .57. Person a. pays. $314.64
                Person b $800 x .43. Person b. pays $237.36

                Write out a spreadsheet which show these calculations each month and show how much he has paid if anything.

                Then complete a Motion to Change Form 15 C and serve him. Book Case Conference date and he will need to respond.

                You will need copies of your tax returns for 3 years and also you will need to complete a fianancial statement.

                There is lots of information out there on how to complete a motion to change. I will see if I can find the link I used. But there are lots of posters on the forum who can point you in the right direction.

                Ours ended up with a lawyer as the ex lawyered up. But in the end we got it done and he paid costs.

                However once you submit it to FRO you need to be prepared for a couple of months wait until the process gets it into the system. Eventually it does and he will have to pay. We think of it as a savings plan right now, as his arrears carry a 2% interest penalty and its more than you get at the bank lol.

                Comment


                • #9
                  If your daycare varies each month you will need to figure out a monthly average and put that into your motion so FRO can enforce a set monthly amount.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Also, if youre going for the motion to change, do two things:

                    1. Figure out an annual cost for daycare based on these calculations. For instance, if his daycare cost is usually $1000 per year (just a number, could be more) have that number written into the new agreement with a clause that you will reimburse him any savings at the end of the year. That way FRO can enforce the $1000 per year.

                    2. If his income hasnt changed, get a percentage of s7 expenses put in the agreement. For instance, his proportionate share of s7 is 45%. Then you can submit any receipts for items he agreed to (like a sports camp) to FRO and they can enforce that amount.

                    FRO needs numbers either a dollar amount or a %. That will make a lot of your claims easier. It wont be perfect but it will be better than it is now.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Awesome information rockscan and beachnana. I always wondered how this was calculated.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Beachnana View Post
                        You will need to complete a motion to change to get Fro to enforce a set amount each month.

                        1. Calculate your tax rate

                        I took the amount I would have received without the daycare and then I calculated how much I would receive with the daycare submitted. Deducted this amount and came up with $1240 which is the amount of refund for the daycare.
                        I used a tax program so it was really easy.

                        Day care invoices. $4000
                        Refund for daycare $1240
                        Tax rate 31%

                        1240/4000 = 0.31 or 31%.

                        2. Calculate your Net Daycare invoice amount



                        Ex. Monthly daycare is $800
                        31% of $800 = $248
                        $800-$248 = $552. Net cost of daycare

                        3. Now calculate your proportionate amounts

                        Ex. Person a. Salary. $40,000
                        Person b. Salary. $30,000

                        $40,000+$30,000 = $70,000.

                        Person a. 40,000/70,000. = 57%
                        Person b. 30,000/70,000 = 43%


                        4. Now calculate your proportionate share of daycare

                        Person a $800 x .57. Person a. pays. $314.64
                        Person b $800 x .43. Person b. pays $237.36

                        Write out a spreadsheet which show these calculations each month and show how much he has paid if anything.

                        Then complete a Motion to Change Form 15 C and serve him. Book Case Conference date and he will need to respond.

                        You will need copies of your tax returns for 3 years and also you will need to complete a fianancial statement.

                        There is lots of information out there on how to complete a motion to change. I will see if I can find the link I used. But there are lots of posters on the forum who can point you in the right direction.

                        Ours ended up with a lawyer as the ex lawyered up. But in the end we got it done and he paid costs.

                        However once you submit it to FRO you need to be prepared for a couple of months wait until the process gets it into the system. Eventually it does and he will have to pay. We think of it as a savings plan right now, as his arrears carry a 2% interest penalty and its more than you get at the bank lol.
                        Your $800 for net (step 4)should be the $552. Your numbers add up but that $800 may be confusing. .. great info though!
                        Originally posted by Beachnana View Post
                        You will need to complete a motion to change to get Fro to enforce a set amount each month.

                        1. Calculate your tax rate

                        I took the amount I would have received without the daycare and then I calculated how much I would receive with the daycare submitted. Deducted this amount and came up with $1240 which is the amount of refund for the daycare.
                        I used a tax program so it was really easy.

                        Day care invoices. $4000
                        Refund for daycare $1240
                        Tax rate 31%

                        1240/4000 = 0.31 or 31%.

                        2. Calculate your Net Daycare invoice amount



                        Ex. Monthly daycare is $800
                        31% of $800 = $248
                        $800-$248 = $552. Net cost of daycare

                        3. Now calculate your proportionate amounts

                        Ex. Person a. Salary. $40,000
                        Person b. Salary. $30,000

                        $40,000+$30,000 = $70,000.

                        Person a. 40,000/70,000. = 57%
                        Person b. 30,000/70,000 = 43%


                        4. Now calculate your proportionate share of daycare

                        Person a $800 x .57. Person a. pays. $314.64
                        Person b $800 x .43. Person b. pays $237.36

                        Write out a spreadsheet which show these calculations each month and show how much he has paid if anything.

                        Then complete a Motion to Change Form 15 C and serve him. Book Case Conference date and he will need to respond.

                        You will need copies of your tax returns for 3 years and also you will need to complete a fianancial statement.

                        There is lots of information out there on how to complete a motion to change. I will see if I can find the link I used. But there are lots of posters on the forum who can point you in the right direction.

                        Ours ended up with a lawyer as the ex lawyered up. But in the end we got it done and he paid costs.

                        However once you submit it to FRO you need to be prepared for a couple of months wait until the process gets it into the system. Eventually it does and he will have to pay. We think of it as a savings plan right now, as his arrears carry a 2% interest penalty and its more than you get at the bank lol.

                        Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hey you young and not-so-young people having to figure this out - anyone thought about creating an "App" for this?

                          One would have thought that would have been done already....

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks so much for the feedback, I really appreciate it. Sadly, it was on a few years ago that I did spent $20K on legal fees so to think I'm right back to court not pong after is super disheartening. I was hoping communication and cooperation would get better :/ c'est last view I guess.
                            I will likely have questions when I'm in the weeds of paperwork so I thank you in advance lol

                            Comment

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