University as section 7 (long...sorry)

[KMF]

Ok, this is regarding my oldest son's father. I'll give as brief a history as I can. We split when my son was an infant. He was with is current wife before we even split. She claimed to love my son until she started having her own. Suddenly, my son was a burden and treated like he was an unwelcome visitor. His relationship with is father only existed on EOW....no communication in between, dad refused to see him any other time. I suggested Wednesday dinners, but he said it was "a pain".

Father never did anything with our son one on one. The one time they started tossing a ball around in the yard, the wife sent her other kids outside and said it wasn't fair that he was doing something with only my son. Naturally, my son felt resentful and hurt.

For 15 years, he had to hear how I was taking all their money. When he was 9, they went into a dollar store and he asked for a toy. His dad made him use his own money, and said he couldn't afford to buy it for him, because his mom was taking all their money. For the record, he makes $120,000 a year, and his wife makes at least $60,000 a year. His dad has not paid ONE penny towards section 7 expenses and never paid me any spousal support, so we are talking guideline child support only.

His dad admitted to taking my son's $2000 savings we got from relatives when he was born, and spent it on furniture debt. He was to pay it back in the form of an RESP. My son also asked him a few years ago, if he'd help buy him a used acoustic guitar so he could take a credit music course in high school. His father refused and said he had no money to help him out. As a result, my son couldn't take that course (I was in a bad financial position and just didn't have extra money at the time).

Fast forward to 2 years ago. My son was given a url by his stepmother of a blog she kept, giving people ideas about budgeting. While reading this blog, he discovered that she and his dad had 5 bank accounts, with various amounts of money....$15,000 for a dream car they were saving for, $11,000 for emergency fund, $9,000 for house repair money, and some other amount for post-secondary money for their kids. He also read about the family vacation they were planning for them and just their three kids. I have no idea why she gave him that url, but I suspect she knew it would upset him.

He called his dad and confronted him about being left out of their family vacation. He said he didn't even want to go, but it would have been nice to have been asked. I guess everything just bubble up, and he started bringing everything up.....refusing to help him with a guitar, never doing anything with him one on one, punishing him in unacceptable ways when he was little but not using those punishments for the other kids, etc. His father hung up on him and they haven't spoken in two years for the most part.

My son is now in university full time and living in residence. He's close enough that he's able to come home on weekends from time to time and comes home for Christmas, reading week, summer, etc. He wrote to his father in July, asking if he had any university savings for him, as he was filling out OSAP forms and needed to know. I contributed what RESP money I had contributed, although it wasn't much, it was what I could afford. His dad wrote back to him and said he did have money but wasn't about to discuss it with him as it was inappropriate. That was the last he heard from him.

Is my ex not obligated to contribute anything towards his tuition at all?? For 17 years, my ex has only contributed child support and nothing more. I took care of everything section 7 related. I only raise the question, because arabian had posted in another thread, that a judge takes the parent/child relationship into account. At the very least, my son deserves to get the $2000 back that his dad admitted to taking.

I'm trying to help my son as much as I can, but I'm in no financial position that my ex is in. Sorry it was so long and if you're still reading, thanks.

[HammerDad]

Most the post is irrelevant emotional fluff.

Post secondary expenses are an S7 so long as the child is enrolled full time (up to a certain degree - bachelors, masters etc - generally equivalent to what their parents have).

As an s7 expense, and based off most case law, the parents are to split 2/3rds of the costs proportionally to income. The child is expected to pay 1/3 as it is their education through savings, scholarships, bursaries and grants.

So the simple answer is - yes, your ex is supposed to contribute to his sons post secondary education. Should you file a motion to have him pay his proportionate share, you would almost guaranteed be successful. Note that his c/s may be reduced to factor in that the child is living on residence and thus not using the utilities of your house nor eating your food.

[KMF]

Well, this "irrelevant emotional fluff", is my son's life, therefore not fluff to us. I only mentioned said fluff, because as I stated, arabian's post in another thread, that a judge factors in whether a child has unilaterally cut off relations with a parent. I gave background to show that even though my son doesn't see or speak to his dad, there were valid reasons for it, and not just some teenage temper tantrum because he got his car taken away from him. I wanted to know that if they don't speak, whether his dad needs to contribute still.

Thank you for your reply.

[HammerDad]

Well, this "irrelevant emotional fluff", is my son's life, therefore not fluff to us. I only mentioned said fluff, because as I stated, arabian's post in another thread, that a judge factors in whether a child has unilaterally cut off relations with a parent. I gave background to show that even though my son doesn't see or speak to his dad, there were valid reasons for it, and not just some teenage temper tantrum because he got his car taken away from him. I wanted to know that if they don't speak, whether his dad needs to contribute still.

Thank you for your reply.

In this instance, the fluff is irrelevant. The laws on S7 expenses are fairly clear and straight forward. Should you file a motion to have him contribute, you will almost certainly be successful.

I would recommend forwarding a letter (via lawyer if you have one) requesting his contribution to the post secondary expense as per s7 of the legislation. Filing a motion immediately, without first formally requesting for him to contribute, may appear like jumping the gun and acting unreasonably.

[arabian]

I think Father sounds like he needs a wake-up call.

Get together with your lawyer and nail him for whatever you/son are entitled to.

I'd be getting together ALL section 7 expenses for the past 5 yrs. You may only be awarded 3 yrs retroactive but one never knows. Worth a shot anyhow.

This is clearly a case where one parent gives another a break (by not claiming section 7 all those years) and the other parent, and child, pay dearly for it.

Aren't you glad you "dodged the bullet" and didn't stay with this guy?

Congratulations on raising a son who is pursuing his dream and going to university.


I sincerely hope good things happen soon for you and your son.

[KMF]

thank you, but then I was stupid and married someone even worse!lol! This isn't the abusive ex who doesn't pay child support through FRO! this guy is just a douche.

I don't even care about the past expenses. It was my fault for not going after them, but I really didn't want any conflict and my ex can't make a move without his wife's permission. The one thing I did ask for him to contribute to was my son's driving lessons, and she freaked. She wrote on her blog what a greedy bitch I am for making them help pay our son's driving lessons. Unfortunately, my son read that as well. I thought it was funny.

I'm very proud of my son. He's been through a lot.....a bio dad who doesn't give a crap about him, and his ex-stepdad who abused him for the duration of our marriage. He even won a scholarship based on an essay he wrote about overcoming the obstacles in his life. He's found first year difficult, but he worked hard, he applied for OSAP on his own, and he's already been offered two jobs for summer work that he plans on putting towards next year's tuition. He's a great role model for my two younger kids. Not that I'm biased at all

[HammerDad]

I'd be getting together ALL section 7 expenses for the past 5 yrs. You may only be awarded 3 yrs retroactive but one never knows. Worth a shot anyhow.

I'm not sure this is the best advise.

We don't know what communication was had when prior expenses were incurred. If the ex wasn't consulted about the expense and advised of the cost and provided an opportunity to pay then, how can he reasonably be expected to pay now? Depending on the circumstances, and amount of communication had between these two parties, going after everything for years past that may not have been discussed, may appear as punitive and may measure the OP's success should it end up in court.

Post secondary is different, and given what was provided by OP here, the ex knows the kid is in school. Sending a formal letter requesting his proportional share of 2/3rds of the cost is reasonable. You then move to court if rebuffed.

But if the op were to ask for the sun, the moon and the stars, when there is no evidence of expenses being discussed, agreed upon and receipts circulated, it may reduce OP's chances of getting costs should she be unsuccessful in getting an order for all prior expenses to be reimbursed. The results become mixed, both sides will have won parts of the case, and thus costs would not likely be ordered.

[HammerDad]

OP, here is a very recent case which is fairly on point to your situation (save for differences in income):

CanLII - 2014 ONSC 1520 (CanLII)

[KMF]

Like I said, what's in past is in the past. I'll absorb all the costs. I just want my son to have a little less financial stress than he has with all the school related fees.

[KMF]

OP, here is a very recent case which is fairly on point to your situation (save for differences in income):

CanLII - 2014 ONSC 1520 (CanLII)

Thanks, I'll check that out!

[arabian]

I will look for some case law as well. I'm pretty sure I've read cases where people get section 7/post secondary. Best interests of the child etc. If the child has done well academically then perhaps that makes a difference? Parents not agreeing on a kid going to university shouldn't preclude parents from assisting child in university, in my humble opinion (which may very well be incorrect as Hammerdad has pointed out).

I don't know pistachios about section 7/child support. I just can't fathom a parent not wanting to help their kids out to succeed, particularly when the son has shown he is doing well in school.

Fortunately judges are well-educated and understand the value of successful post-secondary education. I hope the OP pursues this matter - the kid is worth it.

[KMF]

I will pursue it. My son wanted to try and handle it on his own...I think it was his way of starting communication between him and his dad, his father is giant moron and instead of reaching out to his son, he got his idiot wife to write the reply. That made my son shut down again.

I wrote a follow up letter to my ex, stating that my son was 18 and old enough to discuss HIS education and tuition, but since he refuses, I was also expecting him to contribute. He chose to ignore my letter altogether.

Aside from tuition, he also needs food and I've been buying his groceries for months, since his meal plan ran out. He's really struggling and it's really hurtful that his dad has not asked a single question about how school is (he's never asked about his school. He never even knew what grade he was in most of the time). None of his family from the other side showed up for graduation, so they didn't see that he graduated with honours and received a scholarship. It's sad that his dad has no interest in his first child, but I think he feels that if he ignores him long enough, we'll forget to pursue financial help for school. Brilliant plan.

[arabian]

I don't know what is with these women who write letters for their men... probably makes them feel important when all it amounts to is shit-stirring on their part. It is a total put-down to your son that his father couldn't bother his ass to respond personally to his son. Doesn't say much for the father that is for sure.

I know personally what it's like to see a father treat their son like doggie-pooh. In the end though it is the father that loses out. As kids get older they get busy and don't have as much time to be with family. Your ex will regret this someday I'm sure. Meanwhile, your son will continue to get through university brilliantly and some day, when he has a family of his own, he will know how to encourage his own children.

[Berner_Faith]

Do you receive CS for this child still? I don't believe groceries are considered S7... Dad should be contributing to the tuition costs but I wouldn't bring up the whole grocery thing. Of course your son has to eat, but if Dad pays CS then it would be expected that you buy groceries.

Your best bet would be to just go for the S7 expenses and not mention the other fluff because a judge won't care about that fluff. Remember, as emotional as it is for you and your son, a Judge doesn't care about how you two feel, they only care about what the guidelines state.

[KMF]

It's sad, because his kids (the older ones, at least) really miss him, but their parents won't let him communicate with him. His dad texted him a couple of weeks ago and asked if my son was ready to talk. My son told him he was going to be at a family birthday party, and would like to keep things civil and just wants to catch up. His dad said that he doesn't want his children exposed to the situation, so they didn't end up going. Way to reject your kid.