child support calculations

[baileybug]

Here's our situation:

We are divorced. We share custody 50/50. He makes more than me annually. He pays all costs for daycare upfront.

Should we go to a lawyer to figure out the exact payment he is supposed to make to me? Or is it simple enough to figure out on our own?

I know we go to the guidlines, look up his and my salary's, and figure out the difference between the support payments... however how does daycare figure into it? I am responsible for about 40% of the costs, however he does claim it on his taxes and gets a credit.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[Decent Dad]

One thing I have always stressed is that in divorce you can do anything you want. Anything for support, access, custody, etc. Anything. As long as you both agree. When you are not sure, you can look for defacto agreements or use the "law". The further apart you are on the issue, the more help you need: newsgroups, forums, mediation, and then the ultimate hell court (with or sans lawyers).

Going to a lawyer for adice may be okay... or very bad. Why? There are some good lawyers who will give you some solid advaice, keep you out of the systems (courts, etc), and then there are some the fans the flames and pour heaping amounts of gasoline on the situation.

Now, having said all that... yuo can do whatever you want. If you both agree.. and if you both think it is fair. So, you can have no child support, some child support or full child support... any amount. If you want the defacto (not the law) you could use the set off formula (what he pays you minus what you pay him). Adjust down and up from there.

As for the daycare... depending on the costs and # of children... he could pay the whole thing and receive the deductions. If he does this, maybe reduce the CS or have no CS at all. Or you could each pay your share based on income ratios and each get a receipt from the daycare.

Without knowing all the details (e.g. your income, his income, assets, debts, costs, etc) I can only offer high-level suggestions.

Like I said: do what you want, what you feel comfortable with, what you both can agree on, and stay out of the courts/legal system.

[baileybug]

Thanks Decent Dad.

We aren't looking to go to court or anything. I was just thinking that with lawyers having that "divorcemate" software, they might be able to do some calculations better than me. Also, they might think of something I didn't.

Would a lawyer do this kind of thing for a fee instead of having to be retained?

[Decent Dad]

Every lawyer works differently. Some will do a free consult.. some not. Some will want a retainer... some not. You could ask a lawyer to run some numbers for you at an hourly rate. Most likely you could find a lawyer for around $200 per hour for that. Or, you could use a mediator and split the cost. They are the same as a lawyer regarding numbers and they should know the laws, and they have all the same software, etc. Mediators are more inclined to simply provide solutions and numbers, with gentle opinions rather than a push.

The divorcemate software (or its equivalent) should be made available for free online. But we can only dream. What it does do is take into consideration standard things like income, deductions, but also good items like tax deduction when claiming the children (equivalent to spouse) , CTB, UCCB, and so on. It will basically show a % of each persons input into the total pot. From that you could determine any support requirements. Since the law is not black and white for 50-50, the software cannot direct what to do with 50-50. For example, just because person X makes more than person Y, with tax credits and more, it might be determined that person Y actually has more net income than person X. Stuff like this that drives us crazy when all financial issues revolve around the payor's gross income.

Finally, there is two things that trump all of the above. The big picture tangible and the intangible factors. Because the laws ATTEMPT to make things all nice and smooth after a divorce and basically level out all incomes, assets, etc... most likely someone is getting royally burned. What I mean is that if one party of the divorce is getting a huge amount of settlement disproportionate to common sense and dignity, there should be some give in the other direction. Also, the intangle factors like pick up, drop offs, day-to-day, care, etc. What if the person paying was also the person doing the majority of driving? Maybe they should pay less support?

Just things to ponder. Mediators are good at these intangible things.

As you can see I personally dislike the current Child Support Guidelines. I think it is more the problem than the solution.

[wmike]

Decent Dad.

Decent dad..

I like your quote "There are some good lawyers who will give you some solid advice, keep you out of the systems (courts, etc), and then there are some that fan the flames and pour heaping amounts of gasoline on the situation."

Sounds like you've been through the whole nine yards. I'm just getting through it and refinancing to keep the house. That gasoline you mentioned above is... your hard earned dollars.!

Mediation is the way to go.. I attempted this but she backed out, I did not get that choice. My Ex went to a Lawyer. To some, a Lawyer & a Doctor are god. Looking back now, my only mistake is I should have more or less represented myself. You end up paying for a LOT of bullshit.

My sense....the Legal system in some ways promotes "mistrust".

regards.

[baileybug]

Funny you should mention going to a mediator... we are currently seeing one to hammer out a parenting plan... but she didn't want to touch anything to do with finances.

So I asked my lawyer about it and she suggested she draft/figure something out for that, then give it to the mediator to put in as part of the parenting plan. (If I can ever get an appointment with her)

We have no spousal support requests and my ex and I divided our assets a long time ago, which did not yet include a house. So I don't think we did too badly.

[Decent Dad]

Financial medaitors are more grounded.. since things are usually a little more structured. Family mediators can be a little tricky. And they can be biased beyond belief. I have interviewed about a dozen family mediators and found the majority to be dead set against shared parenting. So be very careful in mediation and interview them before you sign on to one.

If you both want 50-50 and joint custody, a family plan should be very easy. If you both respect each other as a parent, it could be as simple as one page. Even a 100 page document down to the n'th degree means nothing when one parent wants to use the kids against the other parent. Parenting agreements are completely useless when the rubber hits the pavement.

Sounds good about including the lawyer stuff into the plan. As long as it is simple. You basically need a line like "This agreement is valid unless something forseen or unforseen happens, or a material change planned or unplanned occurs... " blah blah.

Good luck.

[Decent Dad]

Decent dad..
I like your quote "There are some good lawyers who will give you some solid advice, keep you out of the systems (courts, etc), and then there are some that fan the flames and pour heaping amounts of gasoline on the situation."
Sounds like you've been through the whole nine yards. I'm just getting through it and refinancing to keep the house. That gasoline you mentioned above is... your hard earned dollars.!
Mediation is the way to go.. I attempted this but she backed out, I did not get that choice. My Ex went to a Lawyer. To some, a Lawyer & a Doctor are god. Looking back now, my only mistake is I should have more or less represented myself. You end up paying for a LOT of bullshit.
My sense....the Legal system in some ways promotes "mistrust".
regards.

Although some lawyers are next to pure evil, it is ultimately the client that directs them. To me, I still point the blame directly to my ex for the years and years of court. But I know her lawyer did not help.

The legal system absolutley promotes mistrust... why? Because the two people directly affected by it... are pushed further and further apart. Behind lawyers. Behind 100's of letters. Behind hidden agendas. Behind laws that are anything but clear. Custody and access is ripe for the picking. Spousal support too. Child support is a mess. There is a lot of carrot dangling and the lawyers hold the stick. Nice system, eh... and we voted for it.