Should I accept it?

[sam666]

10 years of marriage. Ex wants spousal support for 5 years fixed with no conditions whatsoever. Let me repeat, absolutely no review or condition no matter what happens to either party's circumstances.

I'm ok with everything else but I want only one thing which is to review spousal support if I lose my job or my income is significantly reduced. Ex says NO! Now there is no other option unless I go to court where who knows how much it's gonna cost.

So should I accept it with no review or condition? Does this happen? I mean do people do this kind of agreement? You never know what may happen to your financial circumstances and it's pretty scary to think that there will be no review of any kind. Or am I naive to think like this?

Need your opinions/suggestions...Thanks

[sam666]

also we both still live in matrimonial home which is on my name only and I have always paid mortgage and all the bills. Do I have to wait for her to sign the agreement, pay her equalization, and then have her move out with her half of the stuff? Or can I pay her equalization and ask her to move out before signing the agreement? In latter case, what about SS? If there is no separation agreement signed then am I suppose to just pay her SS?

[BitHunter]

Accept it. If you loose your job, you can ask the court to change the SS because of the material change in your situation.

[Rioe]

Accept it. If you loose your job, you can ask the court to change the SS because of the material change in your situation.

Even if he has signed an agreement stating he's on the hook no matter what happens?

I personally think it's a bad idea. I don't even remember his ex being entitled to spousal support in the first place.

Try negotiating with her. Five years WITH an earlier ending should circumstances improve for her (ie, remarriage) or worsen for you (ie, job loss), or only two years guaranteed. Or five years guaranteed at half the amount, or two years at the full amount she wants. Etc.

As for your other question, I know you probably want her to move out, but I wouldn't pay her any equalization until you have an agreement signed. If she wants her money, she'd better come to an agreement with you first. Otherwise this could drag on and on and on. Although, that could be in your favour, because you certainly wouldn't be paying SS without the signed agreement, and the longer it goes without her getting SS, the more she is proving she doesn't need it.

Don't forget to charge her rent for living there, if you're paying all the mortgage and bills.

[sam666]

Even if he has signed an agreement stating he's on the hook no matter what happens?

I personally think it's a bad idea. I don't even remember his ex being entitled to spousal support in the first place.

Try negotiating with her. Five years WITH an earlier ending should circumstances improve for her (ie, remarriage) or worsen for you (ie, job loss), or only two years guaranteed. Or five years guaranteed at half the amount, or two years at the full amount she wants. Etc.

As for your other question, I know you probably want her to move out, but I wouldn't pay her any equalization until you have an agreement signed. If she wants her money, she'd better come to an agreement with you first. Otherwise this could drag on and on and on. Although, that could be in your favour, because you certainly wouldn't be paying SS without the signed agreement, and the longer it goes without her getting SS, the more she is proving she doesn't need it.

Don't forget to charge her rent for living there, if you're paying all the mortgage and bills.

I tried but she wants no discussion on her re-marriage or her job. Those 2 are definitely out of SA. And Like I said I have agreed to everything else (I'm ok with it...I prefer having peace of mind over some money...She is crazy and abusive as f*ck). My only problem is my financial circumstances because if I dont have money then obviously I can't continue paying her.

And I do think that if the SA says no condition or review then you can't have it changed after.

Rent?? forget it! It's a sin if I talk about it. She never pays for anything and simply says NO.

[6foot5]

Rioe wrote:
"and the longer it goes without her getting SS, the more she is proving she doesn't need it."
Exactly!

[sam666]

Rioe wrote:
"and the longer it goes without her getting SS, the more she is proving she doesn't need it."
Exactly!

f*ck...u guys are turning me into a 'fighter'...

[6foot5]

It is a fight ... no prisoners !
Be prepared for anything !
THE LIST (Print It) - Divorce Forum and Child Custody Forum
Excellent material for newly separated , especially man

[shellshocked22]

just to give another viewpoint....

First of all, let's assume the "amount" of spousal support is reasonable as well as assuming she qualifies. Quite frankly I think people should be responsible for themselves but "legally" does she qualify.....

There is something to be said for "a sure thing" in that you have a firm end date. I'm playing devil's advocate here but IF you got "wiggle room" then SHE will likely want the same. For example, you say that if you get sick and lose your job you can revisit SS. Well, she will likely want the same - that is if SHE gets sick and needs more SS for a longer period of time then she can do it.

Five years is not that long AND keep in mind that its tax deductible. Do you have RRSPs ? Worse case if money is tight you could pay her via RRSP withdraw and in effect you won't get taxed on it since you can deduct it. Don't forget to take the "net after tax" into account.

You don't want to roll the dice in court (never mind legal fees) OR end up paying her for LIFE if she gets sick or disabled down the road. In my opinion, if the amount is half way reasonable and if she is entitled legally to it, I would take my chances with the 5 year firm time period.

For your other question, my understanding is that you need a court order or signed SA in order to make SS tax deductible ! If you can wrap up SA quickly, might be best to pay the mortgage (try for rent can't hurt) in lieu of SS and then get her the hell out of your house once she signs the SA.

Make sure your SA is properly worded for the firm end date - others can help with wording and/or make sure your lawyer does it correctly.

[FB_]

just to give another viewpoint....

First of all, let's assume the "amount" of spousal support is reasonable as well as assuming she qualifies. Quite frankly I think people should be responsible for themselves but "legally" does she qualify.....

There is something to be said for "a sure thing" in that you have a firm end date. I'm playing devil's advocate here but IF you got "wiggle room" then SHE will likely want the same. For example, you say that if you get sick and lose your job you can revisit SS. Well, she will likely want the same - that is if SHE gets sick and needs more SS for a longer period of time then she can do it.

Five years is not that long AND keep in mind that its tax deductible. Do you have RRSPs ? Worse case if money is tight you could pay her via RRSP withdraw and in effect you won't get taxed on it since you can deduct it. Don't forget to take the "net after tax" into account.

You don't want to roll the dice in court (never mind legal fees) OR end up paying her for LIFE if she gets sick or disabled down the road. In my opinion, if the amount is half way reasonable and if she is entitled legally to it, I would take my chances with the 5 year firm time period.

For your other question, my understanding is that you need a court order or signed SA in order to make SS tax deductible ! If you can wrap up SA quickly, might be best to pay the mortgage (try for rent can't hurt) in lieu of SS and then get her the hell out of your house once she signs the SA.

Make sure your SA is properly worded for the firm end date - others can help with wording and/or make sure your lawyer does it correctly.

It's basically a math question.

What is it going to cost you in legal fees?
What is the best case with court?
What is the worst case with court?
What is that "sure thing" worth to YOU (not us)?

Only you can answer those questions.

For myself, my ex had no real entitlement but I gave her a lump sum of $3000.00 for a spousal waiver as that "sure thing" was worth $3000 to me and would have cost way more than $3k to prove she had no entitlement.

Many here have given their opinions, but you have to live with the decision so you need to do what's best for you, nobody else.

Good luck.

[FightingForFamily]

My agreement stated that my ex's spousal support would be based on the highest wage I earned when we were married but would not increase further than that even if my salary were to go up later. It had no particular mention of what should happen if my income were to drop drastically, since it would be an unforeseen material change in circumstances which would reopen negotiations or possibly require going to court.

The five years with a firm end date is pretty reasonable if she is entitled. You can decide if you want to review the amount each year based on your income but you have to base the amount of SS on something.

Here is good wording for the end of SS:

The parties are considered to be fully self-supporting (after X date) and not in need of support from the other. Neither party will ever have any obligation at any time in the future to pay support to or for the benefit of the other whether pursuant to the Family Law Act, or any similar or successor legislation or rule of law or equity anywhere. Person1 and Person2 both recognize that their financial circumstances may improve or suffer catastrophically or beyond imagining in the future by reason of such things as inflation, increases in the cost of living, loss of employment, financial mismanagement, failing health (mental or physical), windfalls and inheritances or failed expectations and otherwise. The parties nevertheless agree that notwithstanding any such change(s), whether related to or engendered by the marital relationship, or whether profound, substantial, radical, material, catastrophic or whether foreseen or unforeseen or otherwise, neither party will ever have the right to claim or obtain further spousal support from the other.

[Serene]

I would accept it. You will spend as much money or more if you try to prove she is working or making money, or not trying to better herself. And you have a firm end date. Its a good deal for her indeed, but you will have peace of mind and be able to get on with your life. That is what you need.

And she will think she won. That in itself might be leverage for you in other parts of your divorce.

Perhaps agree on the condition she doesn't touch your CPP or work pension. That would be a good compromise. And get it written into the agreement.

[DowntroddenDad]

Perhaps agree on the condition she doesn't touch your CPP or work pension. That would be a good compromise. And get it written into the agreement.

Work pension split should happen as part of the agreement, but my understanding is that she can go after CPP after the divorce is final, even if the SA says she won't.

[sam666]

lots of good advices here...you guys are great!

The SS amount we have agreed on so far is $700 / month. My income around $80K and hers around $23K.

Some of you who said I should accept the deal have made me think about it....because if we end up in court it could cost a lot in so many ways.

[arabian]

You're getting off cheap IMO. If a lawyer gets wind of this you could very easily pay double that.