Financial Survival - is it possible?

[Luddite]

This is probably only for the guys on here but any insight would be helpful.

Frankly....how does anyone do it? I have been making significant payments for over two years after losing most everything I owned. The only reason I can have any life at all is because I have been chipping away steadily at what little savings I had left despite myself. I do not have an extravagant lifestyle at all, had to give up things like eating out, trips of any nature besides a bit of camping with old gear, haven't bought anything for myself (to replace everything I lost) that wasn't on kijiji besides some clothing in two years, etc. All of this doesn't seem to matter to the bottom line.

Investments seem to be impossible, I can't get a mortgage bc the banks won't lend to me when they see the totals and meagre downpayment(well...I could live in a trailer probably) and I'm even considering stopping deposits into the kids resps because I may need that soon.

I had a couple of major car repairs that came up for example and the savings dropped hugely but I cannot make it back. Everything just keeps dropping and dropping and within a couple of years at this rate I'll be bankrupt but I don't know what else to do.

Oh and now, I was just told that the ex wife wants significantly MORE money and is likely going to go to court to get it. I cannot afford a big legal fight now like she can but if I have to pay more and/or lose a lot in court I have no idea how I will survive. It's terrifying me.

I'm also no spring chicken. I should be planning for retirement somehow or maybe trying to enjoy a bit of the post-marriage life but I can't do anything without whittling away at the only cash i have left.

Making matters more fun is that the ex is living pretty high - upsized to a much larger house than our old one, takes trips, taking the kids to Disney, etc and is apparently buying a motorcycle now. The kids don't understand how I don't have all of this too and how I can't do nearly as much with them. It breaks my heart.

So seriously, how do you live guys? Payments are theoretically supposed to "maintain" the lifestyle of the kids post divorce but they (and of course the ex wife) are living far better while I continue to circle the drain. This cannot go on forever. It's unsustainable. Would anyone even care if I ended up in a cardboard box?

Is it even possible to do things like plan for retirement or enjoy life at all in these circumstances? When the marriage ended I was looking forward to starting a new life after a while but so far, feel like I can't do much. Dating at my age has been a hoot too once many women find out how financially destroyed this has made me. Maybe it would have been better to remain miserable in the marriage than to be old, broke and hopeless in a few years.

So is there a way? I'm getting desperate especially as my job is due to end within a couple of months and so far, I can't find anything else.

[FightingForFamily]

I wish I had some magic advice, I feel like I am in a similar situation though I am younger by the sound of things. I only have a quality of life, and my son only has a quality of life when he visits, because of the generosity of my new partner (she opens up her home to us on parenting weekends) and my parents (we visit every week).

Without their generosity I would have nothing. I would probably have to give up on access completely because I would no longer be able to afford to own a vehicle.

The only things I can suggest:

-Take it one day at a time. I try not to worry about the future as much as I can... it's too overwhelming and out of my control.
-Find enjoyment in the small things in life. The pride of clean living space, of a delicious home cooked meal.
-Find some cheap, social hobbies to get you out with other people.
-Keep looking for work! Unfortunately losing your job may not entitle you to a break in any of your payments.

[ceilidh1]

Definitely not only for the guys...

I am 100% financially supporting my two young kids. I work fulltime, pay 100% of bills, daycare, diapers, activities, EVERYTHING! I don't get handouts/benefits and receive zero from their dad on account of him having "no income". Despite his refusal to work and lack of income, he manages to fly back and forth to the US every 3 months, go on vacation to Mexico for 10 days, and come and go in the kids' lives as he pleases. I, on the other hand, am living paycheque to paycheque and racking up thousands in legal fees as he continually takes me to court whenever he feels like it. I have cut back on all non-essential expenses - no car, no cable, no home phone, no vacations, no Starbucks (LOL) but still struggle to pay the bills each month and keep my head above water. So I totally see where you are coming from. It's not easy, but I would do it all again in a heartbeat as I am now finally coming out the other side and for the first time in a very long time feel strong, happy, and at peace!

[NeverGreen]

I hear you...the way they have the financial part of set it up is based on antiquated laws and the assumption that women and children live in poverty because men dont pay enough.

The sad fact is they base the child support guidelines assuming you have no bills...when in fact, you also have to have a house for the kids, pay for entertainment, buy clothes and food etc. It isnt right, I know it all to well.

Sadly the court seems to have the assumption that if money is needed they'll just take it out of the payor without giving much thought to how they are going to live.

In my situation Ive just had to learn to live with the fact that I am going to pay 80% of the childs bills for a looooong time, because I make an average income and she barely makes anything. I wont ever get ahead, I wont be able to save anything, I dont even know how Im going to afford it if I have to go back to court after I finally get a parenting order (2+ years in court so far), and the whole time the system is taking a percentage, the lawyers are taking a percentage and taxes take a percentage.

If I died tomorrow I wouldnt be able to leave my child anything.

If you make an average income and so does she....it doesnt work out too bad with shared custody, however whenever there is a significant discrepancy in income it totally screws the higher earner.

Lucien Khodeir has some interesting reading, plus hes crusading for child support reform, he has some extremely valid points that sadly it seems a 5 year old could comprehend but doesnt seem to have any sway in reality.

In this day and age it should be expected that all parents have the means to support their own kids at an equal level, and custody should also be a mandatory 50/50 unless there is the potential for abuse or neglect. If you cant support your own kid based on that...more reason to give full custody to the parent who can.

Pray for reform, because in my eyes the current laws arent fair....theres no reason why both parents shouldnt have a minimum standard of support, and payments based around a fair contribution that also takes into account your financial needs as well.

[Luddite]

God.....that isn't good.

I don't understand how this can even be. I went to school, took my knocks, worked up to better jobs, provided for the family while never even taking up golf or whatever like so many others because it seemed a waste of money at the time. I pay my taxes, mow(ed) my lawn that I once had, I don't even have a speeding ticket to my name in my life but I'm screwed forever simply because my ex wife turned evil and made my life a living hell?

Now....now no matter what I do I have LOST money at the end of each month. Seriously I rent a room from a friend right now and have been for over a year. I ony have a mattress because I've been trying to save up for a bloody bed for the past year plus. If I have to live like this after falling so far still then what's the point in even trying?

I of course, want to provide for the children and do so but if this is my only future then maybe there's no point in trying at all. A friend actually suggested moving overseas and taking my chances with a new life. If there were no children involved that might even be an option...

At one point I was almost suicidal. Not now but I mean if there's no point in working toward anything and even hoping of enjoying life a bit then why bother.

OK, good lord I can't even believe I'm asking but are there any ways to try to half work the system to get a break somehow? I mean in comparison I have an old friend from school who basically became a pot head. Nice guy but lazy as hell and has never even held a solid job very long. Despite all of that, he is now living heads and tails above me and just got back from a trip to the US somewhere.

Please. Any suggestions. Anything, I no longer care what they are but there has to be some way to reduce payments to something remotely fair. I can't keep living hopelessly or dependant on others.

[NeverGreen]

Dont contemplate suicide....your kids need you.

You could argue 'undue hardship' but from what I understand it isnt an easy road to go down.

It will get better.....when the kids are grown the bills will stop....and theyll realize what you went through.

I know very few people with these obligations that have any quality of life. Sadly the recipients of the cheques seem to be doing not too badly at all.

Keep your chin up, do whatever you can to stay positive, there was some good advice posted on taking pride in the small things.

[FightingForFamily]

I was $100 a month away from leaving my job as a senior system's analyst for the federal government in Ottawa each day and walking down the street to sleep in the homeless shelter next door. Wage slavery is a very good description.

I have never been able to reduce my payments (or even miss a single one) but I was able to gradually get promotions at work and slowly raise my gross salary to the point where now I finally get to keep the equivalent of minimum wage.

In my separation agreement there was a clause that said my spousal support won't increase and will be based on my salary when I was married. My child support has gone up with my income, but since spousal support was fixed I have been able to gradually get enough wiggle room to pay the bills, though I have had to downsize 4 times since separation to do so.

Like you, I rent a single bedroom in a basement. I have a bed, a book case, and a desk with my old computer from I was married.

I spend most of my time at my girlfriend's house, fortunately. We have no plans to move in together until my financial situation improves... I'm just a liability otherwise.

[Links17]

I am planning a strategic bankruptcy about a year before I can reasonably get SS to end. I have a plan that will give me and my kids a good quality of life (assuming I get shared custody) and when the time is right claim bankruptcy, there wont be much equity in the house, the debts will have accumulated because I would have paid SS off my credit cards basically (mixed with my living expenses etc....).

The key is to make $70k + salary get reduced to below the LICO cut off (should be easy between spousal, child and child care) for 9 months then I claim bankruptcy invite the bank to take my house or keep as a paying owner

[knackered]

It is about time people start talking about this side of it.

NeverGreen you said it all perfectly!

Why do they go by Gross income? and not Net?

Why do they only go by the non-custodial parent's income?

My ex makes more money a year than me, plus receives enough money from me a year in child support that would equal another part-time job for her, plus she gets a good amount of government benefits by claiming Single Mom--Her income substantially increases because of all this....and mine substantially decreases)

I've lived in my car for a period of time....maxed my credit cards out taking the kids to hotels during my weekends with them.

I've lived with room mates, done the whole sleeping on the floor!

[Marcos]

This is probably only for the guys on here but any insight would be helpful.

Frankly....how does anyone do it? I have been making significant payments for over two years after losing most everything I owned. The only reason I can have any life at all is because I have been chipping away steadily at what little savings I had left despite myself. I do not have an extravagant lifestyle at all, had to give up things like eating out, trips of any nature besides a bit of camping with old gear, haven't bought anything for myself (to replace everything I lost) that wasn't on kijiji besides some clothing in two years, etc. All of this doesn't seem to matter to the bottom line.

Investments seem to be impossible, I can't get a mortgage bc the banks won't lend to me when they see the totals and meagre downpayment(well...I could live in a trailer probably) and I'm even considering stopping deposits into the kids resps because I may need that soon.

I had a couple of major car repairs that came up for example and the savings dropped hugely but I cannot make it back. Everything just keeps dropping and dropping and within a couple of years at this rate I'll be bankrupt but I don't know what else to do.

Oh and now, I was just told that the ex wife wants significantly MORE money and is likely going to go to court to get it. I cannot afford a big legal fight now like she can but if I have to pay more and/or lose a lot in court I have no idea how I will survive. It's terrifying me.

I'm also no spring chicken. I should be planning for retirement somehow or maybe trying to enjoy a bit of the post-marriage life but I can't do anything without whittling away at the only cash i have left.

Making matters more fun is that the ex is living pretty high - upsized to a much larger house than our old one, takes trips, taking the kids to Disney, etc and is apparently buying a motorcycle now. The kids don't understand how I don't have all of this too and how I can't do nearly as much with them. It breaks my heart.

So seriously, how do you live guys? Payments are theoretically supposed to "maintain" the lifestyle of the kids post divorce but they (and of course the ex wife) are living far better while I continue to circle the drain. This cannot go on forever. It's unsustainable. Would anyone even care if I ended up in a cardboard box?

Is it even possible to do things like plan for retirement or enjoy life at all in these circumstances? When the marriage ended I was looking forward to starting a new life after a while but so far, feel like I can't do much. Dating at my age has been a hoot too once many women find out how financially destroyed this has made me. Maybe it would have been better to remain miserable in the marriage than to be old, broke and hopeless in a few years.

So is there a way? I'm getting desperate especially as my job is due to end within a couple of months and so far, I can't find anything else.

Maybe a 'friend' Doctor could diagnose you with severe clinical anxiety, perhaps even depression or something due to your situation. This disorders could prevent you from working full time or maybe even completely. Then, you'd be able to show the court or FRO that you can't work at all, 'no income' or can only work part-time 'minimal income'

Depending on your education/experience/training etc. You could then work for cash!. Other; Perhaps you and a 'partner' could register a business get some work/contracts under this business, where you would 'employ' a few people and pay them, and pay yourself a meager and modest amount as you get your business 'off the ground' of course. Most 'businesses' will succeed or fail withing the first 3 years. You can then start a new business venture in 3 years.

Or you could disappear to a place where FRO can't touch you, like the Philippines for example. (nice weather, cheap to live) - Keep in touch with your kids through skype or other electronic means. - Tell them the reality of why you left (depending on age) - Tough decision, just saying. (i could never do it)

Does your spousal support order have an end date?
You can always try to get SS changed, undue hardship, the ex can work, she is living beyond her means, you can't provide the same life style when the kids are with you. You would need get seriously educated and self-rep.

Just my thoughts, i really don't know anything.

Try to keep your head up!
Cheers.

[OntarioMomma]

My heart goes out to all of you in this situation, spousal support seems to have so many inequalities. I hope things will get better for all of you.

[Luddite]

Imy ex makes more money a year than me, plus receives enough money from me a year in child support that would equal another part-time job for her, plus she gets a good amount of government benefits by claiming Single Mom--Her income substantially increases because of all this....and mine substantially decreases)!

Same situation except that I do (on paper) make slightly more than her. She has a good, permanent federal job that places her income alone above the national "household" level and if you add in what she receives from me...well, let's just say to make that much more take home cash, she'd have to be making an additional probably $35G a year at minimum. That doesn't of course count government benefits, tax breaks, etc which are all substantial. I have child care costs included in my payments as well but I can't even write these off because RevCan won't recognize anything except one "principle residence" so at the end of the year, she even gets to write off childcare costs that I pay for - poof another break but I get nothing despite the reality. Last year I owed on taxes while she came out with a huge refund and none of this matters it seems.

I appreciate all of the advice about "keeping the chin up" and so on but good lord.....by the time payments stop, if they ever even do, I'll be into what is supposed to be retirement age but won't have anything. How can that be even permitted? It feel like a human right volation to be forced into what is wage slavery only to then shuffle off into old age poverty all because a marriage didn't work out. Seriously even criminals eventually get let out.

So no. I can't do that. I don't know what to do but I can't do that. I'll never make it. I have worked too hard and sacrificed too much for that to be my only future.

I'm glad someone mentioned new relationships. That's an entirely different story as yes, money matters especially as we get older. I have been on my own since I was 18 and I can't stomach the idea of being either a burden to someone I care about or essentially a dependant even if someone would try to see past this.

Jesus.....it feels so hopeless. Thanks for the other advice about businesses, etc I will definitely look into things.

By the way, if I can ever buy a house again it will have to be with someone else (maybe my father or something). If there is a dispute about payments or they can't be made at any time in the future, could my ex try to seize a new house somehow? I know she'd likely enjoy doing that and I can't put anyone else at financial risk because of this crap.

[Luddite]

Maybe a 'friend' Doctor could diagnose you with severe clinical anxiety, perhaps even depression or something due to your situation. This disorders could prevent you from working full time or maybe even completely. Then, you'd be able to show the court or FRO that you can't work at all, 'no income' or can only work part-time 'minimal income'

Thought about that but even if I could manage to do it (not really my personality) what would I really save? It would all be dependant on making under the table cash which would be very tough longer term.

Depending on your education/experience/training etc. You could then work for cash!. Other; Perhaps you and a 'partner' could register a business get some work/contracts under this business, where you would 'employ' a few people and pay them, and pay yourself a meager and modest amount as you get your business 'off the ground' of course. Most 'businesses' will succeed or fail withing the first 3 years. You can then start a new business venture in 3 years.

A variation on the above is a real possibility. If/when the job ends in a couple months I may be forced to start some sort of business regardless. I am positive though, that the ex would not simply accept a lower amount so would likely apply to have payments kept at present levels.

Does anyone know how sucessful this sort of application is? I mean I can't live now but if I made less and the courts decided to base payments on the last 3 years of income I'd starve and that's no joke. Ironically, the past 3-4 years have been the highest earning period of my life (you'd never know it now) and there is next to no chance of making more in salary in the future so if a judge assigned an income and I had no way to pay based on it then what?

Or you could disappear to a place where FRO can't touch you, like the Philippines for example. (nice weather, cheap to live) - Keep in touch with your kids through skype or other electronic means. - Tell them the reality of why you left (depending on age) - Tough decision, just saying. (i could never do it)

Even if I could do that the ex would cut all contact immediately with the kids and that would destroy me.

[Luddite]

I have a question about payments being based on income when you own a business. If I have to start a company after a job loss it will obviously not make much at least for a while so what does that mean for payments?

Also, if I incorporated with a shareholder or two, how is income calculated based on that? Would it be based on a salary the corporation paid me or the sales of the company generally, etc? What about corporate expenses/losses? Are they factors in these things? If a company made $80 thousand in a year but had expenses of $40 then can I assume the caculations would be beased on $40? It seems obvious to me but the system doesn't appear to care if I live in a cardboard box so I'm asking.

All I want is to pay a reasonable amount of support and to be able to somehow have something to work toward in the future. I am not afraid of hard work but it has to be for something after all.

[Luddite]

Just to clarify for everyone, I am not trying to avoid child support responsibilities. I am simply trying to find a way to live again somehow and maybe have a future.

How can the system financially destroy people like this who have done nothing wrong? How is a father living in a shack with nothing going to be a better parent?