laid off from work - SS & CS determination.

[sahibjee]

Hi all,
Brief History

3.5 year marriage.,1 child. separated Oct 2011, income of 60k was imputed to me, ex was unemployed at the time, been paying SS & CS through FRO, there are arrears (SS) of about 3k pending from before the order was made which are being deducted monthly at an agreed upon rate.

ex has a master's degree and was a teach abroad prior to our short marriage, she found a minimum wage part time job in July/August 2012

couple of weeks ago (march 2013) my 7 years career ended when the employer laid me off, there is a *possibility* of a 5 months severance pay which will end in early august 2013 if agreed upon the former employer.

now its my understanding that i will be forced to continue to pay CS which i am going to find a way to do, but what can be done about SS? it was a short marriage of 3.5 years, i have already paid her SS for almost 1.5 years however in the last settlement conference the judge put no pressure on her to find a proper full time job or become self sufficient any other way but simply told me "pay her a lump sum as settlement or you may have to pay her for another year" (also both parties jointly submitted to increase my access which judge refused without any reason. technically trying to setup the case for ex to get full custody) she seemed very biased.

what do i do with the SS, should i wait until the severance pay is over and then bring a motion to terminate SS or go ask for it now? whats the best strategy?

[sahibjee]

I was a very involved dad, took 5 month parental leave at our son's birth, his doctors were always carefully chosen by me (have email evidence of that too) when our son was 2.5 years old i was already looking for the best schools (have email evidence) and much more.

what's working in ex's favour is that she got me charged with false allegations (which were eventually dropped) but at the time CS got involved they recommended that she be given full custody based on the restraining order and "nature of relationship"

I did have a lawyer in the beginning but could not longer afford one.

I am dealing with the judge who handed over a 7 year old girl to people who had criminal records involving drugs, prostitution and violence and eventually killed the little girl. what justice can i expect?

[hadenough]

Why was an income imputed to you in the first place? Are/were you self-employed or a sub-contractor? Typically an income is imputed to a payor when their disclosure is incomplete (and/or they likely generate some of their income in cash). Otherwise, support is ordered by the Table Amount/Guidelines.

With 5 months sev pay (you're likely to find another job) - you wouldn't likely meet the undue hardship threshold or material change in circumstance.

I am however surprised that such a short marriage was ordered SS. That seems unusual.

[sahibjee]

Income was imputed because i hadn't filed my taxes until the motion time (unable to get some financial details for taxes until that time)

The argument I intend to present is that being in IT i worked at the same company for 7 years right out of university only on their inhouse built legacy systems that were developed in languages no longer widely used and even those applications i was only supporting which are propriety to them and not used anywhere else in the world therefore my marketable skills have diminished and i will need significant retraining in order to get back into the skilled job market.

I was also thinking on saying that marriage was short, SS has been paid for significant period of time, and job was lost due to stress related to a recent false allegation made to police by the applicant again (no charges though) I have the police report. therefore SS should be terminated.

Why was an income imputed to you in the first place? Are/were you self-employed or a sub-contractor? Typically an income is imputed to a payor when their disclosure is incomplete (and/or they likely generate some of their income in cash). Otherwise, support is ordered by the Table Amount/Guidelines.

With 5 months sev pay (you're likely to find another job) - you wouldn't likely meet the undue hardship threshold or material change in circumstance.

I am however surprised that such a short marriage was ordered SS. That seems unusual.

[standing on the sidelines]

they laid you off but they never fired you? If so then using the arguement that you "lost' the jop due to stress probably wouldnt fly. You would need to prove it.

[arabian]

I thought you had some big invention that you were going to launch... make a killing on... do altruistic things with? Perhaps now is a good time to do that?

Yes it does sounds as though you got on the wrong side of the judge. Not providing financial disclosure would explain the imputing of income.

Where do I find this judge? Sounds awesome.

[hadenough]

So does "laid off" imply you may be called back, or is it pretty much a done deal?

[hadenough]

Are there many cases on CanLii that anyone knows of, off-hand where someone successfully argued that they lost a job, or couldn't work due to stress?

Personally, it's not hard to believe imo as stress/depression can be quite devastating.

[sahibjee]

not sure if fired or laid off are the same thing or not, the exact wording on the letter given to me was as follows

"Dear NAME
Further to our meeting today, this letter is to confirm that your employment with ABCXYZ will terminate effective (that days date)". The attached schedule A outlines the provisions ABCXYZ is prepared to make to support your transition to alternate employment.

If you have any questions contact *the HR lady who took your card and walked you out's name*"

Thank you for your contributions to ABCXYZ and wish you success in your future endeavors.

Sincerely,
your exboss.

while handing me the envelope the exboss said, So given the performance issues for past little while i have decided to terminate your employment, the HR lady will explain further to you and handed me a package that contained the letter above.

I cannot dispute that my performance was lacking, it was indeed very poor by even my own standards, and the fact that my former employer had put up with it for over a year puts a very high regard for them in my view. if I were my own boss I would have fired me at least 6 months ago.

The stress was mostly from threats of being arrested, right after the first round of arrests the doctor advised me to take a stress leave which i did for two months, charges were dropped in Nov 2012, Last month (Feb 2013) ex tried to have me arrested again, within a month i got fired. oh well.

and then the leech thinks i should continue to have to pay SS desipte her being the root cause of me losing my job. how kind.

[standing on the sidelines]

you were not laid off, you were fired. Laid off means a temporary time off after which you will be called back and continue working at the same place. They said they terminated you which is another way to say you were fired.

[sahibjee]

you were not laid off, you were fired. Laid off means a temporary time off after which you will be called back and continue working at the same place. They said they terminated you which is another way to say you were fired.

right, I would like to know what the best argument would be to terminate spousal support given the situation and length of the marriage.

[Links17]

You have no means.... There is no money to pay. It won't terminate, I think they will take money off unemployment

You have to make reasonable efforts to get another job

You may also have to prove you didn't purposefully reduce your income by quitting

[DowntroddenDad]

Hold on a second.....

Yes, the word layoff can mean a temporary state, but in the workplace today many companies will lay you off, with no intention of ever bringing you back.

I've been on both sides of the desk - I've been laid off, and I have done the layoffs. Neither is fun.

Since your letter is vague you need to consult your Record of Employment. Your HR person should have given it to you, or send it to you immediately.

Check out this information on the ROE:
Chapter 2: Block-by-block instructions for completing the Record of Employment - Service Canada

In short, if the reason is code A, shortage of work, it can mean permanent or temporary layoff, and he would be entitled to collect employment insurance. Dismissal (code M) would be fired.

[DowntroddenDad]

right, I would like to know what the best argument would be to terminate spousal support given the situation and length of the marriage.

I don't think you can just yet.

Were you given severence pay? If so, you can't make a motion until your severence runs out. If you will be collecting employment insurance and you have other income, they could make a case for continuation.

Its not cut and dried.

[sahibjee]

I don't think you can just yet.

Were you given severence pay? If so, you can't make a motion until your severence runs out. If you will be collecting employment insurance and you have other income, they could make a case for continuation.

Its not cut and dried.

yup, it appears that you are absolutely right, I just got off with HR, they will continue my salary for 5 months except extended benefits, and thus no ROE yet. so perhaps i will make a motion a month before i run out of end of severance and ask for termination of SS and reduction to CS to the max EI payments which i think i will fall under based on my final 4 pay stubs.

OR
would it be a strong argument that SS be terminated now for the funds to become available for me to get training (i.e. Tuition) to upgrade myself in order to be able to find a job since I haven't had an upgrade in a while since 2007 (light years in IT world).