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**Mess** · 01-12-2013, 02:16 AM

If her income tax returns show how much was capable of earning, then she can be imputed a comparable wage. However this is a unique situation, I believe a judge would accept an explanation that she wanted to get out of the dance trade.

Does she have no other work experience or education? $20k is minimum wage. Yes, this is what you might expect to be imputed if she has no other job skills.

You absolutely should not agree to be imputed a higher wage than you earn under these circumstances. Why did your lawyer advise you this? There must have been a reason. If it was just for negotiating purposes, then the offer has failed; withdraw it. If there is some specific factual reason why you are capable of earning more than you do, then you may run into issues, but since she is voluntarily underemploying herself, I would suggest that you have the same options.

Do you have anything in writing (email, text?) where she states she will quit work if forced to pay CS? I would strongly suspect she would not quit dancing; do you have any possibility of finding out if she continues work, or starts again later? Witness affidavits etc.?

I do not understand why you would expect lump sum payments ordered? I would guess that she has been working up until now with a declared $88k income. So does she owe retroactive support based on that amount? If so, then yes, a retroactive payment might be ordered.

What is the issue with SS? She is working, and earning a significant wage. What is your income? How much support are you being expected to pay? Or are you expecting her to pay spousal support?

Your description is that you have 50/50, so you are only covering half of the costs of your child. You are working. What would you do if your ex fell off a cliff and you had the child 100% and had to support your child on your income alone?

Are you receiving the Child Tax Credit? You should be. If the mother is still receiving the full benefit she is doing it fraudulently. You need to apply for the benefit and register your custody level with CRA. Get this sorted out and you can claim your child as an eligable dependant, especially if your ex starts working under the table.

I strongly doubt that your ex will give up her full income and her lifestyle just to avoid a few hundred dollars difference in CS payments on a 50/50 setoff calculation.

Look, how much do you earn compared to her $88k? It is not possible to give you any substantial advice about what you might expect. If you are earning $20k working in Tim Horton's, then that is different than if you were earning $80k yourself. What would be the setoff child support amount if she stays dancing? What would be the setoff amount if she quits? Who would pay who? These questions have to be answered.

**arabian** · 01-12-2013, 03:06 AM

If the attitude you portray is correct it's no wonder people don't agree to things in these sort of venues.

My advice would be to request that the other side put forth their proposal.

End.

Do not do anything until you receive this.

Have a martini. Wait. Have another martini.

**Janus** · 01-12-2013, 03:52 AM

My understanding is that if CS is paid as a lump sum, that it pretty much doesn't count for anything. So, the payor can give $100,000 today, and then two years later the recipient could just go to court and get the table child support.

**arabian** · 01-12-2013, 04:36 AM

In this case I suspect that it might be beneficial to see what the other side proposes first.

**arabian** · 01-12-2013, 04:37 AM

Offer in writing. Do nothing until you see that. You are in a very good position here. Don't blow it.

**puravida** · 01-12-2013, 10:34 AM

i should give some case history as it is quite copmlicated:

living together since late 97 late 98
arrested for escorting i was devestated and had no clue she told me she was a dancer.
i ended up taking her back the charges were dropped in exchange for her turning in information.
married in 2001
i bought our first home 99 her name was later added to the deed under her request. we bought a rental property together in 99
i got my mechanics license in 2001 and up to that point i was making 18$ an hour.april of 2001 bought our first rental in august 2001
i quit my job ,got married and started out on my buisiness doing general contracting and excavating and looking after our rental buisiness.
we bought a home i fixed and sold in spring/summer of 2001.
we bought a duplex in april 2002.
aother home we bought to fix and sell in nov 2002 and sold in early 2003.
we bought our current matrimonial home in june of 2003 and we sold our original farm (that i had bought and fixed up in 99)in late 2003
another duplex in march of 2003 and another duplex in april of 2004
all of these properties were bought in a very bad state of repair and required extensive repairs and renovations. which i did.
the current matrimonial homewas abandoned for 25 years prior to us buying and i took the whole summer off of my work to finish the home to move into and finish our original farm to sell.
as you can see there was not a whole lot of time durring these years to actually get anything for my buisiness going.
in 2005 we had our first son which is quite the story in its self but will have no bearing, i believe, on the outcome of this and i love him dearly.
in 2005 we bought a cottage property that required a large amount of renovations that i did over the course of three years so not too much of time restraint there.
in 2005 i started to focus on trying to get my excavating buisiness going more,i also took most the summer off to spend with our son while mom went back to work dancing as she had done through the term of our marriage. i purchased a newer excavator a 1995 (the old one was from 1973 you can only imagine its condition lol) i was averaging approx 35000 net over the next 3 years .
i was doing our taxes using quick tax. we had some minor speed bumps in our marriage up to this point but nothing we didnt eventually work out .
we had our 2nd and last son in 2008 we also sold our cottage property and bought another one , which again was in a serious state of disrepair.
i then started to learn of infedelities and that she had started seeing customers out side the club the odd time. every time i found out she would promise it would end and like a fool i beleived and forgave.
my income took a huge drop in the next few years , i started using an accountant and i believe i was not writing stuff off correctly which would explain a good portion off the drop in income,
i put an addition on our current home, there was also a recession which didnt help im sure. in nov 2010 we bought a large farm with my brother and his girlfriend we all are on title .
i took from nov 2010 to our seperation date oct 2011 mostly off to completely renovate the old farm house and put on an addition.
it was early in 2011 that i found out of yet another infedelity in which i may not be the biological father to our youngest. this was the straw that broke the camels back so to say.
my income for 2011 was just over 2000 dollars on my noa,
8000 for 2010
14000 for 2009 if memory serves me.
now present day since seperation to the start of school i had the boys 60% of the time.
i have been pretty much forced out of our home by her, she has tried to have me charged with dv on 3 seperate occasions
thankfully the police saw her behaviour and no actions were taken against me.
she has threatened to kill me (shoot me and smash my face in with a baseball bat) in front of our 3 year old police were called but i was stupid and told them i did not want charges laid
i did this trying to protect the boys.
she would come home from the club at 330am come into my room and start yelling at me to leave and she would wake the children
i would leave to minimize conflict for our boys.
she broke into my shop, located on the premises and stole some paperwork and my keys from my work truck and equipment, police were called,
she was stealing my mail from the mailbox and the police were called as i found peices of it in her bedroom from over a month.,
she took out a joint 100000 investment with no knowledge to me and thankfully used it to pay down our line of credit.
she shut off my buisiness/home phone but only after she had a few months of being extremely vulgar and ignorant to customers to the point that i was no longer getting any buisiness calls and still to this day (i was able to get my old number back) i get very few calls for work on that number.
she closed the hydro account for our matrimonial home and put it solely in her name.
closed the hydro at the cottage,
closed the hydro at the new farm jointly owned with my brother and sister inlaw,
refused me access to my boys regularly untill school started .
i came home one night at 11 pm with the boys to find her best friend, another dancer in my bed having intercourse with a man that was not her boyfriend. the stbx was not home.
shortly after this i built a secur room in the basement out of plywood and put a locking door on it
this was also my office area.
she hired a locksmith and changed the locks to it.
i put new ones on again and the next time she simply just kicked the door in destroying it.
police were called for this.

she has taken all pictures and anything of mine out of the house that i did not have locked away.
i also built a storage room to lock my belongings in, which got broke into as well.
she went to the cottage and cleaned it out taking the: generator, canoe, snowblower, and enough other items to fill a legal size paper
again police were called.
the list goes on but im sur you get the idea .
i am forced to take the boys to my girlfriends house when it is my week for them as she will not leave us alone and willfully calls me names and yells at me in front of them.
i grew up in a similar situation and will not let my children go through what i did.
i still am on the property almost daily as my buisiness is there, my shop, equipment, office area, soils i use for my work
i sleep at home the week she has the boys several nights a week but she still enters my bedroom yelling at me at 330am when she gets home.
when it is her week she usually hires a baby sitter to watch the boys from 3pm to 3 am while she goes to work, still dancing.
all throught our marriage she has been the major bread winner as i was responsible for maintaing our properties and doing renovations etc.
i also looked after the boys a great deal as she would be gone from 10 30 am to 330 or 430 am many of the days at work.
she would sleep till 10 and leave.

i would get the boys up ready for school or the sitters, pick them up from daycare when they were in it , she would drop them off at daycare on her way to work.

as you can see quite the mixed up situation.
as i mentioned its been over a year and we have only had a case conference.
i switched lawyers after 10000 and no results just recently and hope to get this settled soon.
i went and got appraisals on our properties except the rentals as i feel they should be valued as an ongoing buisiness and not individual properties.
she wants the rentals and i am fine with that but she is offering me less than what we owe on them.

the mediator seems to think that is fair?
i wanted both farms as they are the main source of my income but was told by the mediator that the appraisals arent really usefull because she is willing to pay more for them than the appraised values and i wouldnt be able to afford them anyways .
she did mention that the stbx could get an appraisal from someone else if she wanted and i should agree to use the value from her appraiser .
i said i would take the two appraisals and average them and agree to pay that price.
mediator thought that wasnt right? bizzare i thought

there is so much more but i have put in too much to complicate already.. please help

**puravida** · 01-12-2013, 11:17 AM

should also mention that we had put the rentals up for sale
two weeks later she changed her mind and then kept taking all the for sale signs down
chased prospective buyers off the property, litteraly,
we had a very good offer on the one property and she refused to sign it
finnaly the realtor gave up and i dont blame her..
i signed a release to have them pulled off the market.
the stbx refused to list the cottage property and i have been the only one paying for the mortgage since we purchased the property.
she finally did agree to list it after our case conference and the judge suggested she should list it.
problem is it is now winter and she put the listing price way too high 30000 over the appraised value. and refuses to lower it.

the farm property with my brother was to be severed but she has refused to sign severance.
the house was never finished and the animals had moved in .
i finished the insulation and vapour bariier i paid to have it drywalled.
i put in a temporary furnace to keep it heated through the winter .

i have since been paying someone to :

maintain the property,
chase the birds, raccoons and squirels out of the attic
fix the insulation that the animals destroyed,
fix the plastic covering the holes where doors should go,
keep fixing the house wrap as it keeps blowing off ,
installed blockers at the eaves between all trusses to keep the animals out or try but they do rip them down every so often.
had them prime the interior as there is no basement floor and moisture was accumulating on the unfinshed drywall causing it to get ruined and now i have found mould in some of the rooms as well do to the high moisture.

if i do not keep the house maintained it will be ruined
this is the 2nd winter it is going throu left unfinished .
i have an appraisal from the seperation date for the front half of the property as that is what we were originally going to take.
i also have an appraisal for the whole property as that is legally what she is on title to 1/4 of the whole.

here is the issue:

i have increased the value of this property by all the work i have done and had done in order to maintain and preserve the structure
now she is looking to beniffit from the increase in value.
the other point i have now is i am in very tight living arrangements at the girlfriends to the point it is uncomfortable and difficult .
i cant spend my time with the boys at home for fear of false dv charges and very bad behaviour from the other half towards me.
i have thought of going and finishing the house enough to live in with the boys durring the time i have them
but am worried that i will only make the property worth a great deal more and she will be entitled to half the increase of value.
im stuck between a rock a hard place and a pit viper.
the lawyers i've spoken too all have varying ideas and opinions on this situation .
i have been using other people to do the work that i could be doing and save money but was told that as long as i can provide receipts i should be rembursed for them but if i do the work i wont get anything for my sweat

**Berner_Faith** · 01-12-2013, 11:26 AM

Please edit your posts and break it into readable paragraphs... you will get more responses as more posters will read paragraphs, rather than a wall of text...

**puravida** · 01-12-2013, 01:13 PM

sorry i get rambling.. how do i edit my post ? i am not very computer savy

**Berner_Faith** · 01-12-2013, 01:19 PM

It is understandable... you only have a limited amount of time to edit the post... maybe try to copy/paste and break it up as a new post... I started to read it, but it is too hard on the eyes!

**arabian** · 01-12-2013, 05:02 PM

It sounds as though you are both emotionally attached to the various properties you own. I would recommend getting a court order to have the properties put up for sale immediately. If you can produce good, concise documentation you should be reimbursed any costs incurred since your separation date on properties you did not personally reside in.

Once you have a court order, possibly naming the realtor, things should start to move along for you. Then your future disagreements will be over the disbursement of marital assets. This fight can be done via written communication and will keep you from having to meet up with your ex face to face - something that would be desirable it seems.

**Mess** · 01-12-2013, 06:12 PM

I will do some editing

**Mess** · 01-12-2013, 06:42 PM

Forget the infidelity, although I understand you wanted to give some background
You second child is your child. Either deal with paternity now before it goes any farther, or accept the child and move on
You need to detail and document your properties and the work you invested WITH AN ACCOUNTANT. Lawyers are expert in law, not finance. You need to have a) a detailed accounting, and b) a clear and simple summary of your properties that a lawyer or judge can glance at and understand
Decide what you want. You are all over the place. You can achieve certain things, but you have to decide what you want to end up with and then discover how to fight for them and win.
You and your ex were married long enough that all of your property is and should be considered a partnership. You are correct that much of it should be designated a business, however your ex is still half owner of that business
Decide which properties you want to keep, offer her an equal value of the others. The simpler you can keep this, the easier it is to end it in a cost efficient manner.

Regarding your interpersonal situation:

GET YOU AND YOUR BELONGINGS OUT OF THAT HOUSE. MOVE YOUR OFFICE. CHANGE YOUR PHONE NUMBER. CLOSE ALL JOINT ACCOUNTS.

You have had a case conference, you can now file motion orders. Pick your battles, but get something protected, you need exclusive possesion of one property. Pick one, file for it.

Document, document, document. Names, dates, times, exact events. You seem to have a good memory, but vague assertions aren't good enough. Be specific. If you have witnesses, get statements.

If she threatens or assaults you, FILE CHARGES. You are not protecting your children by being a doormat. You are not protecting your children by ignoring your ex's criminal behaviour. You would be endangering them.

If you want to protect your children you have to protect yourself and create a safe environment for you all.

What the ex does in terms of babysitting etc on her time is completely irrelevant. Create a safe place for you and your children and focus on your own parenting, not hers.

If the children are in danger or harmed, speak to your family doctor, ask the doctor to file a report with the CAS if the doctor feels it is warranted. The CAS will not generally take a complaint from an ex spouse as seriously. But for god's sakes don't keep this to yourself. You are too close to the situation to make a clear decision. Let your doctor make the call, yes or no.

**puravida** · 01-12-2013, 06:47 PM

i greatly appreciate that and will try to post like that in the future. thank you so much

agreed their is a lot of emotional attachment to the properties. the current matrimonial home was the birth place of both our children it is my current place of work as my yard, shop, materials and so on are at the property

i have no attachment to the rentals and did try to sell them but agree that an order is needed to force the sale of them

the cottage is listed currently after a year of me trying to get her to list it. but she refuses to lower the asking price. i believe i could ask that it be lowered in an order

new question. if i finish the farm jointly held with my brother so i can live there in the mean time is she entitled to the increase in value i have done to the property ? it was mentioned that i would be entitled to reimbursements if i did not live there but what if it was finished so i could move in?i do have appraisals to establish values from several dates and receipts of work done .

can i finish the rest myself and claim the cost if i had some estimates from other contractors? thanks

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lump sum payments for cs and ss

lump sum payments for cs and ss

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