Section 7

[Clean]

So my ex just came off mat leave. She makes $53k/yr, gets 100% of UCCTB ($200/mo) and CCTB ($781/mo). I make $60k.

She wants to pay for Section 7 in relation to her 2011 income tax return, where she only made about $40k (never received a copy) and now claims that CCTB amount is $461 (no proof...).

Now being in the hole, having to pay $892/mo for 2 kids, I'm standing my ground on this one as I can't afford to rake out money i don't have, so she can buy a new mercedes. I don't want to sound cheap, yes, i support my kids, I just want to be fair. I had my income inputed in 2011 because i got a new job, so why would it be any different for her going back from mat leave? I'm dealing with a very hostile aggressive personality (yes, i've read BIFF), but reason has been thrown out the window.

She has yet to provide any receipts for daycare. I have requeted them and said I cannot pay her without proof. My kids are in daycare for 2-3 days a week...

By my calcs, I should be paying 48%.

I just talked to the court house and since we have a final order as of two weeks ago, i can't file a motion to have this resolved. There is no mention of Section 7 expenses in our court order either. Does that mean i even have to pay it?

Is there anything i can do? Is this a material change in circumstance that will allow me to go back to court? Do i need to seek legal advice? I just fired my lawyer a few weeks back (should have done it 6 months ago) and can't afford $300 for sh*tty advice.

[NBDad]

So my ex just came off mat leave. She makes $53k/yr, gets 100% of UCCTB ($200/mo) and CCTB ($781/mo). I make $60k.

Hmmm well, couple things here. Your kids are both < 6 judging by the UCCB thing. Mat leave is a choice, not a right. You COULD argue it if you want to rock the boat. Still, at a difference of 13000 gross you are nickel and diming yourself to death, it's PROBABLY not worth the hassle.

You have the kids LESS than 40% of the time I assume?

The CCTB amounts are fairly accurate. If you have a rough idea of her income last year you can plug the info into the CRA's calculator and figure out whether she is yanking your chain or not.

CRA Calculator

@40K w/ 2 kids in Ontario...I show CCTB as 397.95 total monthly amount. Either of the kidlets qualify as disabled?

At a glance, her numbers are pretty accurate. Unless you have it in your order otherwise, CCTB doesn't count as income for her, it's supposed to be purely for the children.

She wants to pay for Section 7 in relation to her 2011 income tax return, where she only made about $40k (never received a copy) and now claims that CCTB amount is $461 (no proof...).

Ask for a copy of her NOA so you can calculate CS and Section 7 properly. In writing. (Via email first, followed by R3 letter with a 30 day window). Make sure you give her yours as well. Tit for tat so to speak.

Does your final order include a provision to recalculate things yearly? It should. If she ignores the above, you file a request for information through the courts and ask for costs due to her being stupid. If you have a clause in the order to recalculate yearly, you also ask for contempt. (You won't get it right away, but the point is to ASK so it's on record.)

She has yet to provide any receipts for daycare. I have requeted them and said I cannot pay her without proof. My kids are in daycare for 2-3 days a week...

Good for you. BANK the approx. cost so you can show you are ready/willing/able to pay once receipts are provided. That way you don't get whacked with retro payments and have to scramble.

Are they in a registered day care or with a non registered one? (ie. Just someone who does it on the side or what?...what is the ex claiming the cost/day or cost/week to be? Full time or part time?)

A quick google search, or a couple of phone calls will give you a ballpark guess-timate on whether that's the going rate in your area..

PAY NOTHING with a proper receipt. (should be FROM the provider, and should show which kids it was for, the dates, and the cost. For an unregistered provider is ALSO needs to have their signature AND SIN on it for it to be used to claim the tax deduction).

Regarding section 7 as a whole, the relevant info on this topic can be found HERE.

Yes, you owe section 7 for childcare for her to work. If she pushes it to court, you will lose that battle. However she HAS to play nice and give you receipts for legit expenses.

For things like extra curriculars, 1. it has to be extraordinary for the income level of the parties. (@ over 100K combined income, things like $100 for soccer/swimming/etc are NOT extraordinary, are not legit section 7 and are covered by CS. In any event, you should be consulted ahead of time and asked if you consent to it. No consent = no pay.)

Here's some basic math for you. It's NOT really worthwhile for you to fight over the 13K difference in income. See below for why.

I'll aim high and say the childcare costs are $50/day for two kids. @ 3 days a week that's 150/week or 600/month.

NOW...subtract the UCCB..."Universal CHILD CARE Benefit"....aka this is what it's intended to be used for, it gets applied to the total cost, BEFORE you split it. It's not free money, it's child care subsidy money.

600-200 = $400

Now you can ALSO argue that she gets to claim this cost on her taxes, and will get X amount back per year because of it. Ergo the approx. tax break should be taken into account as well to find out the true cost that needs to be split.

(Say this extra 7200 deduction results in her tax refund being 1000 higher than it would be otherwise. - totally pulling numbers out of my ass here, you'd have to calculate it both WITH the deduction AND Without it to get the actual value.)

1000 / 12 = 83
400 - 83 = 317

With you making 60K and her claiming 40K the split is 60% to 40%. You take the TOTAL combined income and then figure out what percentage each of you is of total. So 60000 + 40000 = 10000. Then 60/100 and 40/100.

Using the above childcare cost of 317/month...

You: 190.20
Her: 126.80

With you making 60K and her making 53K, the split is 54% to 46% (60+53 =113K. 60/113 = 54% 53/113 = 46%)

You: 171.18
Her: 145.82

You are getting up in arms over approx. $19 a month.

[sahibjee]

commendable amount of work done here

Hmmm well, couple things here. ........

You are getting up in arms over approx. $19 a month.

[Clean]

$19 a month, when i've barely got two pennies to rub together ($892 cs) is a lot...

The CRA calculator is quite off. I used it last year to estimate and it came back at $350 around there, she ended up getting $781.

I'm taking 53k + ($200 UCCTB + 781 CCTB)*12 + 60k, then dividing out my 60k to get 48%.

I've asked for a receipt showing CCTB. Nothing. I still haven't received her income tax for 2011 and the kids have been in daycare for a month today. She hasn't provided any receipt.

I provided full financial disclosure in may for court. She's got my 2011 income tax return and NOA, paystub, bank statements, etc...

Kids are in $45/day daycare, which is CHEAP. most places around here are $60/day. Not registered or has first aid or any type of training, unfortunately. I didn't have much choice, as my ex moved 70k away to her small town of 2000 people. Which is also why i don't have two pennies to rub together. Over 2000k/month just to see my kids.

She also quit a job that paid over $57k/yr to move away and take a job for $53k...

I know i'm sounding cheap here, but i've been raked over the coals this past year and i need to stand my ground and do what's fair. I have to support my children as well! It's not a great life for them eating hotdogs everyday at dad's house. Ok, well, they like it. haha

[Tayken]

$19 a month, when i've barely got two pennies to rub together ($892 cs) is a lot...

The CRA calculator is quite off. I used it last year to estimate and it came back at $350 around there, she ended up getting $781.

I'm taking 53k + ($200 UCCTB + 781 CCTB)*12 + 60k, then dividing out my 60k to get 48%.

I've asked for a receipt showing CCTB. Nothing. I still haven't received her income tax for 2011 and the kids have been in daycare for a month today. She hasn't provided any receipt.

I provided full financial disclosure in may for court. She's got my 2011 income tax return and NOA, paystub, bank statements, etc...

Kids are in $45/day daycare, which is CHEAP. most places around here are $60/day. Not registered or has first aid or any type of training, unfortunately. I didn't have much choice, as my ex moved 70k away to her small town of 2000 people. Which is also why i don't have two pennies to rub together. Over 2000k/month just to see my kids.

She also quit a job that paid over $57k/yr to move away and take a job for $53k...

I know i'm sounding cheap here, but i've been raked over the coals this past year and i need to stand my ground and do what's fair. I have to support my children as well! It's not a great life for them eating hotdogs everyday at dad's house. Ok, well, they like it. haha

Why are you not a joint custodial parent with 50-50 (at minimum 60-40) access of the children?

There is a lot of focus on "money" here and very little concern for the "best interests" of the children from what I can tell.

What about emotionally supporting your children and being equally involved in their lives?

[Clean]

That's a great question. I've got a 2-1/2 yr old and a 1 yr old that has never lived with me. I settled at the advice of a stupid lawyer. She made false accusations of abuse blah blah blah. I tried. i did... Tracey123 can speak for me.

My ex just flat out refused to budge on anything, cooperate or be reasonable for the sake of the kids.

It's a very long story. I have a very hostile ex. She's done everything in her power to squeeze me out of my kids life. I do have joint custody. But going to a mediator every time she doesn't want to do anything just puts me further in the hole. I make good money, live a frugal lifestyle, but am fading quick.

I'm focused on money, because I'm now back in my children's life, after being denied access for 3 months. I'd like to take them places, or enrol them in sports, but I have no money and my ex hasn't enrolled my oldest in anything i've suggested.

I also don't have a regular access day that i could put them into any activities.

[NBDad]

You can't include cctb/uccb as income for her unless you have a court order that says you can. Doesn't work that way boss.

I've never had issues with the crazy calculator, it's always been pretty accurate for me.

She moved to take a job that pays 4k less per year, but to a location where I assume there is family support. The wage differential isn't that extreme. If she unilaterally moved, why the hell didn't you file a motion to have the children returned?

My lawyer recommended I settle too, I told him to keep going.

Lots here don't make sense. At a minimum if the move was allowed by the court, your cost of access should have been offset via a CS reduction. Did you ask for that?

[Mess]

The cctb calculator works fine for me, and if she was in the $50k range, she should have been receiving around $350 like you say. She either took a drastic cut in pay that year (since you say she isn't giving you her income tax return or receipts) or she lied somehow to to CRA.

The cctb isn't included as income for CS or SS purposes, but according to my lawyer it IS included for calculating section 7 (since it is the kid's money, it is included for their expense calculations.) My lawyer said this was why we should exchange full tax returns, not just notices of assessment.

However I have never seen it spelled out anywhere in case law, and most of the fine calculations don't show up in judge's decisions on canlii.

[wretchedotis]

So my ex just came off mat leave. She makes $53k/yr, gets 100% of UCCTB ($200/mo) and CCTB ($781/mo). I make $60k.

She wants to pay for Section 7 in relation to her 2011 income tax return, where she only made about $40k (never received a copy) and now claims that CCTB amount is $461 (no proof...).

Now being in the hole, having to pay $892/mo for 2 kids, I'm standing my ground on this one as I can't afford to rake out money i don't have, so she can buy a new mercedes. I don't want to sound cheap, yes, i support my kids, I just want to be fair. I had my income inputed in 2011 because i got a new job, so why would it be any different for her going back from mat leave? I'm dealing with a very hostile aggressive personality (yes, i've read BIFF), but reason has been thrown out the window.

She has yet to provide any receipts for daycare. I have requeted them and said I cannot pay her without proof. My kids are in daycare for 2-3 days a week...

By my calcs, I should be paying 48%.

I just talked to the court house and since we have a final order as of two weeks ago, i can't file a motion to have this resolved. There is no mention of Section 7 expenses in our court order either. Does that mean i even have to pay it?

Is there anything i can do? Is this a material change in circumstance that will allow me to go back to court? Do i need to seek legal advice? I just fired my lawyer a few weeks back (should have done it 6 months ago) and can't afford $300 for sh*tty advice.

Take the following for whats its worth. Namely a sidestep.
I have found that opening a new application (for the man) must stringently follow the rules. However, the rules do not apply (seemingly) so much to a female. So - you could simply NOT pay at all, setting the monies aside (so that when you're found at fault you have it in hand to pay) and wait until she takes you to court over it. Then you could argue your points, and perhaps gain some ground.

Why are you not a joint custodial parent with 50-50 (at minimum 60-40) access of the children?

There is a lot of focus on "money" here and very little concern for the "best interests" of the children from what I can tell.

What about emotionally supporting your children and being equally involved in their lives?

Unfortunately, Tayken, MONEY is often the only expectation levelled at the DAD with respect to the best interests of the child. If you disagree - I would humbly suggest you have never faced the stare of a Justice in court over the matters of child raising. In my experience - the Justice was always far more concerned with accusations of me not paying my way versus my claims of 'emotional' support being required that I was fighting for.

Please note - I speak from personal experience, and my experience may not match your understanding. But there it is.