Income earning adult child

[johnmalloy]

Hi everybody,

Here is my situation (and I hope somebody had a similar experience and could help me) - my son, 22 years old and in the third college year (very good student, by the way), is earning a significant income by either working as TA or through coop employment programs. He lives full time with his mom. He makes at least 30k a year - I don't know the exact amount because he doesn't talk to me, however, I have seen an employment offer that the company that hired him makes to students like him, in the same program and university.

Now, while in the last three years his income just got higher (and I really appreciate his progress and am happy for him), my situation, given the all-around economy crisis, went a bit the other way... so I am now in a situation where I find things a bit strange - I am supporting him, but myself, I struggle with bills, living from paycheck to paycheck (not enough though the claim undue hardship). He has all those tens of thousands of dollars for himself to enjoy (again, between mom and I, he is covered for shelter, food, cloths, college, transportation - all the basics.) His college costs (tuition, books) are around 6k a year (he goes only 2 semesters and one works coop, like I mentioned before) – honestly, he could easily pay for it by himself and still have plenty of money left for fun.

Until now, for the periods of time where he would not go to courses but to work, I would just not pay support for him - I considered that he earns way enough to support himself. However, this was for only 4 months a year - I paid for the other 8, and I also paid a portion of his college fees (sharing the full cost with mom).


To keep the story short, I do believe that a working child should still be able to enjoy his work earnings while the parents are responsible for him but I also believe he (or she) should chip in to cover his expenses.

My question then is, how does one decide / calculate how much from an income earned by a child should be deducted from child support and how much should be left to the child to enjoy?


Thank you for your help.
John

[cynthia10]

Ok and to this, are we not doing our children some kind of dis-service by always paying their way?....Meaning every young adult needs to realize there is no bank o mommy and daddy....How did we learn?...yes we provide the best possible life within our means....send them to school.....give a perfect home life etc....but at some point they need to learn responsibility. I grew up in a comfortable life with my parents, but at 16 worked part time, bought my own car...my sons had a cell phone for years which I paid for until they wanted the fancy smartphones...they have part-time jobs....bought it themselves.....and pay the extra expense..they also (twins) pay a bit towards the insurance increase on my policy when they got their license....it tripled, I pay half of that increase and they split the other half...point being is that we need to raise our children to be ADULTS...not children.....and I think that you should approach the situation with your EX....my finances are tight, but I think even if i had alot of extra money I would still want them to "get it", there is no tree of money......

[Rioe]

I think it all depends on the young adult in question, and how he deals with finances. He may have learned those lessons already and be responsible with money. Maybe he's putting extra earnings into savings, for a house, or for contributing to the household expenses when CS does end, while he's able to do so.

Are you paying the CS directly to him, or to the parent he resides with? Do you adjust annually for income changes? I am guessing that if you are able to stop paying for four months, that your ex might actually be somewhat reasonable. Maybe you can negotiate to drop your CS to match your income drop right away, instead of waiting till next tax time adjustment.

At the very least, it sounds like the kid will graduate shortly, and probably have good job prospects, and be self-sufficient soon.

[torontonian]

Hi - I am finding myself in the same situation. Our understanding is that 1/3 of all educational related expenses are on the kid, the other 2/3 are shared proportionately between the parents. A kid earning good income, in my mind, has become independent and not a child of marriage anymore. The fact that he lives at home is his choice, if he was living away, you'd be off CS payments. I'd negotiate if the kid is planning to continue his studies. If not, wait it out, not worth to rock your relationship with the kid over $$. Let us know

[plky]

He lives full time with his mom. He makes at least 30k a year - I don't know the exact amount because he doesn't talk to me

What do you mean when you say your son doesn't talk to you? Do you have any contact with him?

[Lorac]

All seriousness aside and a bit of humour. When my son was 15 he came up to us and said he felt he should be getting more allowance. Long story short...my X got him a weekend job at a concrete business.

[johnmalloy]

Thank you everybody for your comments,
here are a bit more details and answers to your questions.
First, the reason for asking this is that I want to make sure (as much as possible) that I make the correct decision, without having my personal fillings involved. Honestly, at times I feel I should give him more just to make sure he doesn't see me as someone just trying to cheap out and other times, more often, I see myself a fool causing a big laugh at his expense... and I should completely stop paying him anything, especially since I probably overpaid already and I also pass by, almost, unnoticed anyway...

Between these two extremes though, what is the right way that, let's say, a court, would go?

How much contact I have with him? - last month he responded to emails that I sent him... in January. Probably that was the last email for the year - and yes, if you asked, the Happy B-Day wishes go only from me to him...
In my view at least, no there is no way to reason with his mom - the decisions I made regarding how much to pay were based on legal advice I could gather from around - I did adjust CS at the time of my salary change, based on the guidelines, I did participate, proportionate to our incomes, to extra costs. Probably she would have preferred me to keep on paying during those 4 months too (otherwise she could have told me herself that she didn't need money for him) but then I don't think she could've argued she needed money for him while he was making 6000, a month...
Giving him the right lesson for life, financially wise? I am afraid this is not a point any more... - he is 22, he is financially plenty sufficient himself, his mom is financially sound too - in reality, I believe that the amount of money I give them doesn't make for them much of a difference.
In my opinion, if a normal family in this situation, I would have asked him to give 1/3 of his income in the house (in other words contribute to college costs but also, if anything left, to rent and house bills) and the other 2.3 for him. (If he made only couple hundred, I would have asked him for ... nothing, but he makes at least 30k a year...). Should I ask him the same (to contribute with 1/3 of his income), and of course, split that with his mom? Is it too much, too less?
Thank you.

[torontonian]

The expectations are for the kid to contribute, and still keep some savings. 1/3 is the usual amount quoted as the "divorce kid"'s responsibility, whether from loans or work or scholarships. 2/3 shared between parents. I honestly think you are bending backwards to help, but it's a bit late in the game to change that.

[johnmalloy]

Thank you Torontonian,
I believe you refer to college expenses - do you think it is right to ask him to take some (financial) responsability for his basic expenses (like food or rent) and if so, to what extent? Sorry if I am insisting too much with this... - thank you for your help.

[theborg]

Just go to court... Judges think it's so simple too do that it's obvious ur feelin the waters cause your ex makes things complicated, it looks like she already was successful by ruining your relationship with your kid though it seems not totally. Get some case law about rich employed kids and the results...it's all fact driven for support for kids over 18 so case law is all over the map. I do think you have a legimate beef with non disclosure and if court is what it takes for disclosure so be it.

[johnmalloy]

Just go to court...

Thank you,
My concern is (and it was during the years) that going to court would actually by more costly, not only financially but also emotionally - so I would rather swallow the pill and pay a bit more if that was the case. At times, I unilaterally changed the CS amount and my ex., even first time threatened with court, backed off and accepted the change - she either came to her senses that no judge would agree with her or she got some sound advice. However, if I do / did change the support amount, I want(ed) to do it in a fair manner (i.e. feelings and grudges aside and child interest first).

Get some case law about rich employed kids and the results...

Would you happen to know of any precedents I can look into?
Thank you for your help.

[theborg]

Don't change anything you pay without a court order sayin you can, Make sure you've given notice ..ask for retroactive support repayment (which is a huge bargaining chip as it builds monthly). Paying more makes you lily white in courts eyes and saves fighting why you just outta the blue stopped paying for Limo rides to skool for ur kid. Suppose the best in court you'll get is a firm end date for support...just go for that..slam dunk..........ur ex may settle before court

[johnmalloy]

Well, there was no court order to begin with - just a separation agreement that was filed in with the divorce. The agreement states that the cs amount should be revised anually or at any time a significant change in the financial situation occurs (I know that "significant" is vague...). Anyway, the situation changed dramatically since the agreement was made (initially, we had shared custody, but I was lacking the console games, money, freedoms he got where he is now... which, truth be told, other than a year delay with the school and lots of attitude, including swearing, didn't seem to affect his education performance in the end...) and now he lives there full time, which meant I am paying a totally different, of course, higher, CS amount anyway. And that was without a court order as well.
You worry me a bit about changing the amounts without a court order... hmmm....
Ok, I will seriously consider going to the courts - now only if knew of some precedents...

[theborg]

you familiar with CanLll (Canada Legal Information Institute) hope so, if not your going to be very familiar with it soon for case law....u may be Lewi vs Lewi......but there's others
..U say all u have is a sep agreement....but it does say change in circumstances in it ...which is a clause for support reductions in Federal Child Support Guidelines...just do a Motion to Vary....that form process is fairly straight forward .....except the part for "assignment" (it's on front page in small print, which is a separate form you have to fill out and send to some social services organization...fairly quick turnaround with that.
,,,anyways state ur circumstances and what is currently going on and what you want...get a process server and presto...you'll have ur answer at least from ex's side in 30 days and all the disclosure you'll need.....i.e kids income

[johnmalloy]

Thank you theborg,
Now I have a direction - I wil get to the homework asap.