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  • Bank Account Statements

    Family court application currently ongoing to impute NCP's income. NCP works under the table, which we have little evidence of, except for his reported annual income being peanuts. Can we ask the court to order him to submit bank account statements for the last couple of years? This may or may not show a cash flow beyond what he's claiming.

  • #2
    You assume that the cash hit his account at all. If he's being smart about it, it never has and you are giving him ammo to claim you are unfairly persecuting him.

    What would he be making in a comparable job if he wasn't hiding income? That might be another method of approaching this. Bank Account statements are really hit and miss. If it shows a greater cash flow than he has reported, great. If it doesn't it COULD hurt you.

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    • #3
      Yeah, I was thinking about that possibility too - he might not be using his bank account for cash pay. The other approach you mentioned is the planned first line of attack, but it would be good to have some more hard evidence. As it stands now, the only retort we have is that his monthly income ($320) is unreasonable and should be imputed to min wage at full time hours.

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      • #4
        Does he own a vehicle? Rent a place? I read a Canlii case once where the judge imputed income based on the fact that the guy couldn't possibly be living the lifestyle he was living on the income he was claiming.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by CSAngel View Post
          Does he own a vehicle? Rent a place? I read a Canlii case once where the judge imputed income based on the fact that the guy couldn't possibly be living the lifestyle he was living on the income he was claiming.
          Yes, he has a car, which was apparently paid for thru inheritance. He lives with his GF and her parents and apparently pays no rent. The GF parents apparently pay all housing/utility bills and he does work around the house to earn his keep.

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          • #6
            Hell, if all you are asking for is full time hours/min wage, that's NOT unreasonable at all. Do that at a minimum.

            If he's consistently reporting LESS, maybe bring an application from McDonald's and Tim Horton's to court for him.

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            • #7
              An argument could be made to impute his income higher than min wage and full time hours, but we're trying to make the court application as reasonable as possible. After the judge hears the case, could s/he impute the NCP's income to a higher amount or will the judge stick to what was asked for in the application?

              And yes, he's been consistently reporting less for the last 5 years. It's tempting to bring an application for McDs. We were just at McDs yesterday and noticed a "hiring full time" poster. We had a good chuckle over that.
              Last edited by Teenwolf; 04-12-2012, 04:46 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Teenwolf View Post
                ... He lives with his GF and her parents and apparently pays no rent. The GF parents apparently pay all housing/utility bills and he does work around the house to earn his keep.
                That is income. They can't support him and not his children - he is a package deal.

                Line 150 is good to determine income ASSUMING that it is all their income and they support themselves 100% from that income and not by any other means. Otherwise, an alternative method to determine income for CS must be used.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by billm View Post
                  That is income. They can't support him and not his children - he is a package deal.

                  Line 150 is good to determine income ASSUMING that it is all their income and they support themselves 100% from that income and not by any other means. Otherwise, an alternative method to determine income for CS must be used.
                  Interesting. I never thought of this angle before. So what you're saying...if the NCP is financially dependent on others, their income can be considered?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Teenwolf View Post
                    Interesting. I never thought of this angle before. So what you're saying...if the NCP is financially dependent on others, their income can be considered?
                    No, that is not what I am saying. The other's income is irrelevant.

                    What is relevant is the financial value of the support the others are giving him, not what the others earn.

                    Most people support themselves 100% from their income. This is what the CS tables use to determine the amount of CS. BUT if this is not true, the parent is not supporting themselves from their line 150 income, then imputing income make sense.

                    And specifically, even if the support is via a free room and board for example, that has a value, and that value should be imputed as income. It is easier to perhaps impute a minimum full time wage, but that is the way I look at it.

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                    • #11
                      Okay, makes sense. Thanks for the info. I've always wondered about the value of what he's getting in terms of support from others. From what he says, he has a barter system with his GF's parents - housing and food for his general labour - and the value of that should be considered as income. Otherwise, NCPs could work entirely by barter system and get away with paying no CS.

                      Like you said, just imputing his income to min wage at full time hours is the easiest route to go. He will adamantly dispute this, thinking that working by barter for basic needs is an acceptable reason to not pay CS. The reality is that he works under the table and participates in illegal activities to make money (and likely contributes to household expenses), but he obviously won't admit this in court. He'll spew out lies about his barter system with his GF's parents, thinking the court will give him a break on any CS.
                      Last edited by Teenwolf; 04-12-2012, 06:40 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Tell him to do handyman work for the GF's parents in exchange for them to provide you with reasonable CS!

                        Just bringing a moment of levity. Wish that would work though!

                        All I can suggest is to guesstimate what a quarter of the rent and expenses for living in that house would be, and triple it. (Don't banks say you shouldn't exceed a third of your income on housing expenses?)

                        Or use full time minimum wage as the amount to impute for him.

                        Or do a bit of research to find out what an average salary would be for someone of his skill set.

                        Present these to them, and ask that the highest amount be used, and be willing to negotiate down to the lowest.

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                        • #13
                          When one flies below the CS threshold RADAR for 5 years, s/he doesn't really have a strong working skill set. This is partly why we decided to go with min wage at full time hours. The other reason is to appear as reasonable as possible. Imputing his income to 20K/year won't produce a lot of monthly CS, but it's better than zip, which is what he currently contributes.

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                          • #14
                            Does he claim to not work at all? How does he make the $320 a month if he barters with his gf's parents?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by court View Post
                              Does he claim to not work at all? How does he make the $320 a month if he barters with his gf's parents?
                              Yes, he claims to work one shift per week at min wage, which is approx $320/month. He uses the barter system to explain how he can live on $320/month.

                              Comment

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