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  • New 2011 CS rates and extraordinary expenses

    Hi, I'm new at this, so I apologize in advance for the lack of knowledge, but then again that's why I'm here right, .

    This is actually a two part question.

    I was made aware that new rates are now in effect for Child support (Dec 31, 2011). How do I go abouts in getting my ex to increase her payments (haven't mentionned it to her yet, since I wanted more information beforehand and I doubt that she will go for it simply by asking her), do we need a new court order, if so do I need a lawyer again to do this (paying them for an increase of $15-25/mth doesn't make much sense). On that same note, my ex gets pay raises every now and again, does anybody get the Child Support amount changed yearly or do you stick to the same amount regardless of the increases (either pay raises or table amount modifications).

    Extraordinary expenses: It seems to be fairly vague and up to the judge to decide from what I get from some of these threads and the web. What if wanted to sign up my daughter in singing lessons for 30$/month, I imagine that isn't an extraordinary expenses is it (I figure that the amount is covered under child support payments, or is it supposed to be split between the parents? If it's covered under child care what if more activities are done (ie. swimming, horseback riding, etc) and the amount increases to like $100-$200/mth, even if the activities alone aren't that much together they add up, would that be considered extraordinary.

    To conclude, I know it may look greedy and all, but I'm just trying to truly get an understanding of this whole thing (I never really prepared for this, I guess no one really does). So I just want to know where I stand to minimize the fights and so on (there's been too many of those during the process). Just want to move on.

    Thanks.

  • #2
    Your ex can agree to change the support amounts based on the amended tables but is under no obligation to since your agreement/order was made before the date of the new tables. In which case you would need a new court order.

    Generally CS is amended each year based on the tables once all parties can produce proof of income. This is usually after tax time in June or July. But it would depend on your specific agreement or order. Parties exchange their tax returns and notices of assessment, check the tables, amend their agreement and pay the new amounts starting in July.

    This can all be easy or hard, depending on the cooperation level. The adjustments are such that going to court to force a change is rarely worth it.

    Extraordinary expenses is pretty subjective. Generally they must exceed $100 per month and the payor must approve the expense in advance. They should also be considered "reasonable". If you're a single mom, not working and the child hasn't participated in these activities before, don't expect anyone to offer sympathy when you try to get an ex to pay for horseback riding or another expensive hobby.

    In my case I've seen extra expenses for glasses and for daycare. That's about all so far, and they are covered under the guidelines and not considered extraordinary.

    I've made it clear to my ex that between CS and SS I will never agree to pay her a dime of extraordinary expenses until such time as her SS ends. She's already getting the "max" from me.

    Comment


    • #3
      that was my question is it worth it for a back support and the ex saying I will have to pay the court fees ??? yet I am willing to pay the new table amounts ? I am so tired of the control and than to threaten me with me having to pay court costs when I more than comply-

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      • #4
        Thanks for the insight and clarifications. I highly doubt that I will get cooperation on her part for the CS increases but we'll see when I ask. As you mentionned the adjustments aren't really worth it for the time loss.

        For the extraordinary expenses, I was lost since some people mentionned getting somethings and others not getting it, but I guess it's based on the actual situation (except of course for the items in the guidelines).

        Thanks again.

        Comment


        • #5
          I don't understand why one would want to go to court while the other party is willing to pay the extra increase (typically fairly small increases). On the same note, let's say that the CS paying party refuses to pay the increases, if the other party takes it to court, does the CS paying party have to pay all the court fees? I mean otherwise once the order/agreement has been made, it's really up to the good nature of the CS paying party to accept the changes because the changes are typically so small that no one would ever take it to court (court fees would definitely surpass the increases).

          Comment


          • #6
            I would first request a copy of the ex's notice of assessment from the CRA and provide them with a copy of mine. From there, you would advise them that, according to the guidelines, they owe $X per month.

            According to a court case in Alberta, it is the payors obligation to advise the payee of any increases/decreases in income and to adjust their c/s payments accordingly. The Payee can ask for financial disclosure (the notice of assessment) and request that c/s be adjusted accordingly. Should it end up in court and the Payee has made reasonable attempts to request disclosure to update c/s, the payor may be hit with arrears and costs.

            Comment


            • #7
              We already do the disclosure every year but the CS has never changed, it remained with the court order amount. No stipulation in the order mentions that it will be adjusted every year. And since we deal with FRO, they need a court order to get the extra amount.

              Therefore if after requesting the extra amount from my ex, she refuses, is my only other option court? Now, that would mean more court fees that are well over the changes. The changes would definitely be more on principle than on the monetary value of things.

              But if she refuses to pay the extra amount after being asked by myself, and I do take it to court, could she be responsible for the court fees?

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              • #8
                I cant see how a person would have to pay court costs when the other is being reasonable and a paper trail to prove. They support was never asked to be changed with disclosure given without issues . Does anyone know is there is a difference from previous years what the choice is to pay this ??

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by harrionsrick View Post
                  But if she refuses to pay the extra amount after being asked by myself, and I do take it to court, could she be responsible for the court fees?
                  Yes.

                  Here is the most relevent case when it comes to adjusting c/s and incomes etc.

                  CanLII - 2006 SCC 37 (CanLII)

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                  • #10
                    how would that apply if there was a standard method of CS determination written into the court order, and the payor is following the court order?

                    My ex has asked for an increase (verbally before filing a motion to change) and I told him that the method we agreed to would take the change in income into account when we exchange notice of assessments in July 2012.

                    I also asked him to provide me with the documentation showingthe income change (which he never did) and offered to go to a mediator.

                    Harionsrick: i think that it would be unlikely that there would be costs rewardedto either party.

                    You have a straightforward case and if you are exchanging income information every year, then it is up to the recipient to bring it back to court for an adjustment should the income go up. And it is also up to the payor to automatically increase the payment when it does.

                    The fault lays with both of you, and if you would both agree to an increase there is a form that you both fill out and send to FRO to change the payment amount. If not, neither one of you is blameless in this situation and so there is no harm done to either party.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by billiechic View Post
                      Harionsrick: i think that it would be unlikely that there would be costs rewardedto either party.
                      Costs would depend if he asked, and she said no to a) providing her NoA and b) to any increase in c/s should her income have increased.

                      If he asks her to provide her NoA and she says "no" his only recourse is then to try and mediate and failing that, the courts. It is a reasonable request, and the courts can rule that the party who is being unreasonable may be hit with costs.

                      If one is an NCP, they should know that they have to provide financial disclosure each year to update s7 expenses and c/s. Personally, I don't wait until the next year to update my ex with my cs. If I get a raise, I let her know and increase cs immediately. I don't want the courts to take the position that I knew my income had increased and I didn't move to increase my cs, therefore I am blameful and get hit with costs, arrears and interest.

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                      • #12
                        Yeesh...doesn't Ontario have an recalculation program run by maintenance enforcement like alberta? Saves everybody going to court every year.

                        Comment

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