Appeals: anyone been involved in one?

[hadenough]

I believe anyone can appeal but being granted one is another matter. I'm fairly positive that my ex is completely full of it - but there's been talk (just by him) of appealing our Family Court Decision, or rather, our Trial Judge's decision. Has anyone got any feedback on this? Whether as an appellant or a respondent? I don't think he has a hope in hell but I've been amazed before. It's NOT regarding custody - but it is re: Support. CS and SS. I do know that appeals are costly, time consuming, and that they are rarely granted in Family Law. As well, the appellant must have grounds to be granted the appeal. Additionally, the entire trial transcript (usually several thousand dollars) must be ordered and pre-paid and submitted to the Higher Court.

Then: whilst going through the process - any existing order still stands. Except for this forum, I don't (personally) KNOW anyone that's been through a trial let alone an Appeal. Just looking for some feedback. Thanks.

[Tayken]

I believe anyone can appeal but being granted one is another matter. I'm fairly positive that my ex is completely full of it - but there's been talk (just by him) of appealing our Family Court Decision, or rather, our Trial Judge's decision. Has anyone got any feedback on this? Whether as an appellant or a respondent? I don't think he has a hope in hell but I've been amazed before. It's NOT regarding custody - but it is re: Support. CS and SS. I do know that appeals are costly, time consuming, and that they are rarely granted in Family Law. As well, the appellant must have grounds to be granted the appeal. Additionally, the entire trial transcript (usually several thousand dollars) must be ordered and pre-paid and submitted to the Higher Court.

Appeals are not easy and there is a time limit. You can look them up in the Family Law Rules on Google. Appealing SS and CS decisions made at trial are rarely ever done, if ever. If the other parent is unrepresented then the appeal will be a waste of time and costs will be awarded against the other parent.

Appeals have to demonstrate that the Judge presiding over the matter made an error in law. This is no small feat as Judges, especially in Family Law are incredibly detailed and rely heavily on case law in their decisions. The cards are stacked against anyone who appeals a matter.

In my opinion, it is a threat.

Then: whilst going through the process - any existing order still stands. Except for this forum, I don't (personally) KNOW anyone that's been through a trial let alone an Appeal. Just looking for some feedback. Thanks.

The other parent can go on motion for a "change in circumstance" under the Rules and get a different order put forward. This is the problem with Family Law in general. No decision is ever final.

Until a motion is put forward on a change and an order is put forward against evidence, the order you hold stands and is enforceable by law. Even during an appeal process until it is proven that there is an error in judgement against law (case law, or the rules) then, there isn't much to worry about really.

Chalk it up to a disgruntled parent who failed to present their case properly or who lacked the evidence to support their case and lost. It is best to not discuss the case or any future court actions with the other parent. Just stick to the children. Don't get sucked into the anxiety the other parent is trying to create. Don't anticipate what "could happen" or "what the other parent may do next". You will just make things worse for yourself. This is what the other parent wants... to continue the fight that is really over.

The burden of proof is on the other parent in an appeal and it takes a pile of case law and research to appeal a decision. Unless the other parent is represented by a well known solicitor who is willing to take the appeal. It is all just talk to upset you, create instability in your life and to cause you anxiety.

Good Luck!
Tayken

[baldclub]

Appeals are not easy and there is a time limit.

Chalk it up to a disgruntled parent who failed to present their case properly or who lacked the evidence to support their case and lost.

Tayken, some very poignant statements. Always great reading your posts.

I think I would fall in the first category, not presenting my case properly and you could say even the second caregory (disgruntled). However, now I understand so much better what the law looks for and what my position should have been - no lawyer ever gave me that. I personally chalk it up to not really understanding procedure and wording.

I won't go the appeal route but motion to change (form 15 in Ontario) but it's really going to be tricky, damn it.

In your case hadenough, I wish you all the best.

[hadenough]

Thx Tayken and BC. Yes, this is clearly just a threat. Meant to attempt to put me on-guard and off centre. Hindsight on this all is 20/20 as it is w/life in general. Ex's lawyer is not part of any dream team. He's actually the worst lawyer I've ever seen in action. My ex did not have a good case and it's a shame the judgment was a provincial court one, otherwise it would be on CanLii. My ex (and his lawyer) literally lied flat out in court and during trial and got caught in at least 10 that I can recall. It was ridiculous. Thanks again for the advice and logical explanations re: this topic.

[Tayken]

Tayken, some very poignant statements. Always great reading your posts.

I think I would fall in the first category, not presenting my case properly and you could say even the second caregory (disgruntled). However, now I understand so much better what the law looks for and what my position should have been - no lawyer ever gave me that. I personally chalk it up to not really understanding procedure and wording.

I won't go the appeal route but motion to change (form 15 in Ontario) but it's really going to be tricky, damn it.

In your case hadenough, I wish you all the best.

Baldclub,

In your situation is not all lost. You have every opportunity now more than ever to demonstrate through your conduct and access you have to your children to demonstrate you are a competent and capable parent. As time progresses so does the development of children. Change is inevitable in your family situation and will occur. Don't use the "change" as a way to litigate what you want. Work with the other parent, present yourself as a loving parent who should be involved equally in your children's life. Not some disgruntled litigant bound nightmare who is seeking "justice" from the system.

So many parents go to the court seeking justice for their perceptions of past injustices in their relationship. It is rather unfortunate as this route is expensive and most importantly, only causes more unnecessary conflict that polarizes parents who should be working together NOT against each other in a litigated process.

Understanding relevance in Family Law is no small feat for a solicitor let alone a self represented litigant. Often times, decisions in Family Law are based on "emotional facts" and not cogent and relevant evidence.

There is way too much "he-said" "she-said" in Affidavits and testimonies that it is a complete nightmare to sort out on complex files.

Emotions run high in family law. Often times, decisions are made on the emotions of one party. Going to court, you leave the decision up to a 3rd party to make... It only demonstrates in my opinion both parents failure to parent their children in many cases.

Children should not be something to win (or lose) at trial.

Good Luck!
Tayken

[hadenough]

Tayken; you are so correct in theory - but it just doesn't work that way w/some individuals. My ex is a nightmare. He is never reasonable. He is rude, caustic, lies constantly and makes up all kinds of garbage based on nothing other than pure ignorance and stupidity. It's not possible to deal w/him.

[WorkingDAD]

Tayken; you are so correct in theory - but it just doesn't work that way w/some individuals. My ex is a nightmare. He is never reasonable. He is rude, caustic, lies constantly and makes up all kinds of garbage based on nothing other than pure ignorance and stupidity. It's not possible to deal w/him.

looks like perfect pair to my ex.
if not little one I would be happy if thous two meet

[Tayken]

Tayken; you are so correct in theory - but it just doesn't work that way w/some individuals. My ex is a nightmare. He is never reasonable. He is rude, caustic, lies constantly and makes up all kinds of garbage based on nothing other than pure ignorance and stupidity. It's not possible to deal w/him.

This happens when a parent gets what they want. Generally it is the parent who has primary custody and residence of the children. You are also right that it is up to the parent to demonstrate they are a parent. Some people, just can't parent their children.

[Tayken]

looks like perfect pair to my ex.
if not little one I would be happy if thous two meet

This is an interesting perspective. The addition of a new partner into the family dynamic can often result in high-conflict if you are dealing with a disordered individual though. Contempt motion threats, change in circumstance motions, and the whole nightmare starts again.

Family Law for some people is not about their children. It is about winning and "justice". This just wastes the courts time and impacts children.

Good Luck!
Tayken

[WorkingDAD]

This is an interesting perspective. The addition of a new partner into the family dynamic can often result in high-conflict if you are dealing with a disordered individual though. Contempt motion threats, change in circumstance motions, and the whole nightmare starts again.

Family Law for some people is not about their children. It is about winning and "justice". This just wastes the courts time and impacts children.

Good Luck!
Tayken

that why I said - "if not the little one".