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  • #16
    the 5 and a half months you didnt hear from him, did he know where you were or how to contact you?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by standing on the sidelines View Post
      the 5 and a half months you didnt hear from him, did he know where you were or how to contact you?
      Yes, When we left, He sent several text messages demanding that I return his car. Which I already did.

      Days later he called crying, begging me not to go to the police and to return home. He said he would go to therapy if I promised to return. He apologized for what "he did" .. Then explained how he felt that he was a victim too. He did not appreciate the fact we would barricade ourselves in the room at night. He promised to return our mattresses, car, house keys, clothing and everything else he's taken from us. I told him I couldn't go back to that but I wanted EVERYONE to get help because this was not healthy for the kids. I made it clear that he would remain in contact with the kids but I could not talk to him unless I had a lawyer present. He said he would retain the lawyer and the lawyer would "help us both". I said no, I needed my own lawyer. He said he did not want to go to court or have lawyers involved.

      I let him speak to the kids that night as well. He asked them if he still wants to speak to him, the youngest who's a little more direct, said not really. He yelled at her and hung up on her. (Both of these conversations were recorded, I did not trust him)


      We heard from him a 2 weeks later and only again on December 26.

      In between that, I did not receive any further calls from him.

      Now, the kids have been calling several times a week for the past few weeks, leaving messages and refuses to answer.

      Comment


      • #18
        You donít have to respond to me. Im saying what I am to point out the inconsistencies in your statements and responding to your request for ďthoughtsĒ. Plus, I donít want someone months from now finding this thread and thinking its ok to take off.

        There are a few male posters on this thread who had their children taken from them with ample accusations of abuse and months of trying to find their kids to get through the process. Im sure if your ex came on here he would say you are crazy and made this up and stole the kids. The fact that you took off and didnít tell him where you were speaks volumes. The lack of charges and a conviction speaks even more.

        If you went into a shelter Im sure they helped you and were working with you on setting up your life in the childrenís habitual residence and getting your life on track. No shelter would coach a woman to abduct children.

        What you did was illegal and if your ex had done it you would demand the book be thrown at him. Claims of abuse or unhappiness mean nothing and you have now ruined things for your children as it is more likely your ex will win full custody.

        I dont care what you think of me or my statements. You are a kidnapper who has thwarted the law and process and continue to think you are above it. There are plenty of single mothers who have abuse convictions against their exes, who have been through the painful process and who have been successful. You have now set them back by giving judges and lawyers another statistic to use as evidence of flight risks. Not to mention you may have opened up the shelter you were at, and possibly all shelters, to investigation for what they may be saying to mothers about leaving.

        People on this forum gave you advice that was right and true and you ignored it. Now people are giving you further advice you want to ignore. If you are just looking for sympathy for a cause you screwed yourself on then go somewhere else. You are an insult to those of us here who follow the law and do what is expected of us.

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        • #19
          Try changing your mindset from victim to survivor. As a victim you ran away from the situation because that what you thought was best at the time. Now think of yourself as a survivor and you know the courts may force you to come back and you need a new game plan, to keep yourself and your children safe. There are safe guards in the system to help you, including supervised visits.

          You got out by running away, but now you need to go back a stronger women and clean up the mess because you have children. You will never have to be under the same roof with him, but your children might, so get CAS involved, I am surprised they aren't already. Police and the Women Shelter are mandatory reporters.. I have had an open file with them for a year now, for far less than you have gone through.

          You CAN have a peaceful life in Ontario too, I fear now, your life in another Province is not going to be so peaceful anymore, now that he knows where you are and has started litigation in the Ontario Courts., With an ex as a Lawyer and the upper hand in Court because of you abducting the children its going to get a lot worse, You have now put yourself in a position to lose custody of your children. .

          You are raising children, teach them to be strong and not put up with abuse, don't teach them to just run. You need to step up and break the cycle. You can do this!!! We will help you!

          Comment


          • #20
            Have phone calls only started since he started court action? You will not be forced to move back but there is a very strong chance your children will, especially since you have nothing to back up your claims. Iím not saying they didnít happen but in the courts eyes it seems your ex has been cleared of all wrong doings. As Kate said you need a new plan and you really need to think quick about this. If the children are ordered to return to Ontario they will be ordered into their fathers care. You will then have an even more uphill battle. Iím sorry I know this isnít what you want to hear but itís the law. If your ex showed up in your new province and took the children back to Ontario you would be all over that. You have essentially done the same thing. Donít be the victims as Kate stated. Take care of your responsibilities. You are not above the law so you need to work within the law.


            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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            • #21
              Ah not so fast you guys....

              Just because a person wasn't charged in criminal court doesn't mean they didn't do the crime. I know this first-hand when, after a lengthy 6-month investigation by the police department who brought charges against my ex, the crown prosecutor dropped charges for fraud over 5,000.00 simply due to a jurisdictional matter in that it was felt our issue was a "family court matter." Had my ex and I not been married he would have been prosecuted.

              If my ex threatened my life and that of my children I would do whatever it took to ensure our safety. It is no small feat to move across the country. The poster's ex is a lawyer, well-versed in procedures in Ontario courts. His actions speak volumes about an imbalance of power IMO. The Ontario judge's overt bias is quite suspect IMO.

              Has an Order been made by Ontario court to return children? No I don't believe so. If there was then one would think that the RCMP would be showing up and escorting the children back to Ontario and mother would be looking at contempt charges. So I am uncertain on where this "endorsement" stands and if it has any legs.

              Was she correct in fleeing province with children? Legally no. However, I can certainly understand her reasoning, particularly when faced with a system in Ontario which seemed to favor her lawyer-husband. She is correct in obtaining the transcripts of any and all hearings with the Ontario judge for her current non-Ontario lawyer to examine.

              This does not appear to be a typical child custody case. Jurisdiction will have to be decided before anything. Her ex knew where she was and by his not filing and serving her promptly it could be argued that he acquiesced to her moving out-of-province. Presumably she is at or near family so it's not like he didn't know where she was. Her ex had/has all the resources at his fingertips to proceed in a lawful manner in filing and serving her. His lying about serving documents does not bode well for him particularly if the service of documents becomes a prime issue.

              Her ex also needs to work within the law.
              Last edited by arabian; 04-15-2018, 11:38 AM.

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              • #22
                Thanks for your comments.

                I have a court order that says I'm to remain where I am. At the very least until the hearing takes place. Again, the hearing is about jurisdiction.

                And there are arguments that can and will be made for and against me. The purpose of the hearing is to decide the appropriate venue.

                Returning to Ontario to stay in a shelter is not in the best interest of the children.

                There are no holes in my story, I have maintained records of his and my calls and he did not start court proceedings until after he found out the police were investigating him.

                Things could have been done differently but no one denies that abuse took place, both judges made it clear that he will not get custody, he will only get supervised visits in both provinces.

                My children and I have been in therapy for the past few months, and we've also been able to stabilize our lives which is something we were not permitted to do under his roof. Power and Control dynamics are what they are.. Abuse. And it does affect children.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by arabian View Post
                  Ah not so fast you guys....

                  Just because a person wasn't charged in criminal court doesn't mean they didn't do the crime. I know this first-hand when, after a lengthy 6-month investigation by the police department who brought charges against my ex, the crown prosecutor dropped charges for fraud over 5,000.00 simply due to a jurisdictional matter in that it was felt our issue was a "family court matter." Had my ex and I not been married he would have been prosecuted.

                  If my ex threatened my life and that of my children I would do whatever it took to ensure our safety. It is no small feat to move across the country. The poster's ex is a lawyer, well-versed in procedures in Ontario courts. His actions speak volumes about an imbalance of power IMO. The Ontario judge's overt bias is quite suspect IMO.

                  Has an Order been made by Ontario court to return children? No I don't believe so. If there was then one would think that the RCMP would be showing up and escorting the children back to Ontario and mother would be looking at contempt charges. So I am uncertain on where this "endorsement" stands and if it has any legs.

                  Was she correct in fleeing province with children? Legally no. However, I can certainly understand her reasoning, particularly when faced with a system in Ontario which seemed to favor her lawyer-husband. She is correct in obtaining the transcripts of any and all hearings with the Ontario judge for her current non-Ontario lawyer to examine.

                  This does not appear to be a typical child custody case. Jurisdiction will have to be decided before anything. Her ex knew where she was and by his not filing and serving her promptly it could be argued that he acquiesced to her moving out-of-province. Presumably she is at or near family so it's not like he didn't know where she was. Her ex had/has all the resources at his fingertips to proceed in a lawful manner in filing and serving her. His lying about serving documents does not bode well for him particularly if the service of documents becomes a prime issue.

                  Her ex also needs to work within the law.
                  I understand and agree with everything you're saying.

                  The judge in Ontario told me that she can't make any orders as long as I'm a resident of XXXXX. The endorsement was to support his position. Yet, their claims were not factual and were refuted by the courts here.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    It's time for you to move on now.

                    The number of times you've attacked me shows me that this hit close to home. Domestic Violence is wrong and multifaceted -As I'm sure you're aware.

                    You're making this way too personal. You're not a lawyer or a judge, you're behaving like a troll.


                    Originally posted by rockscan View Post
                    You donít have to respond to me. Im saying what I am to point out the inconsistencies in your statements and responding to your request for ďthoughtsĒ. Plus, I donít want someone months from now finding this thread and thinking its ok to take off.

                    There are a few male posters on this thread who had their children taken from them with ample accusations of abuse and months of trying to find their kids to get through the process. Im sure if your ex came on here he would say you are crazy and made this up and stole the kids. The fact that you took off and didnít tell him where you were speaks volumes. The lack of charges and a conviction speaks even more.

                    If you went into a shelter Im sure they helped you and were working with you on setting up your life in the childrenís habitual residence and getting your life on track. No shelter would coach a woman to abduct children.

                    What you did was illegal and if your ex had done it you would demand the book be thrown at him. Claims of abuse or unhappiness mean nothing and you have now ruined things for your children as it is more likely your ex will win full custody.

                    I dont care what you think of me or my statements. You are a kidnapper who has thwarted the law and process and continue to think you are above it. There are plenty of single mothers who have abuse convictions against their exes, who have been through the painful process and who have been successful. You have now set them back by giving judges and lawyers another statistic to use as evidence of flight risks. Not to mention you may have opened up the shelter you were at, and possibly all shelters, to investigation for what they may be saying to mothers about leaving.

                    People on this forum gave you advice that was right and true and you ignored it. Now people are giving you further advice you want to ignore. If you are just looking for sympathy for a cause you screwed yourself on then go somewhere else. You are an insult to those of us here who follow the law and do what is expected of us.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Arabian, you cant compare fraud convictions to abuse. Your case was decided the way it was for different reasons. And Im surprised after all your advice to LF32 that you would jump to the defense of someone who abducted children.

                      Thereís no order to go back because the ex had no idea where they were to file paperwork to get her back and now that the months in a new location has been established he has to go through a different process to get them back. Add in the fight against the jurisdiction and its going to take more time.

                      And as far as my history goes, I have no domestic abuse in it. I have never been involved in any domestic abuse but have watched others go through it. They followed the process, allowed their exís to see their kids and lived a calm life following all the court matters. Its called knowing right from wrong. Whether you choose to admit it or not, what you have done is wrong.

                      Im not a troll for pointing out the obvious. If you canít handle the truth you shouldnt have come here asking for ďthoughtsĒ.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        LF32's situation was different. Notably, I did not believe that LF32 was an abuser. His ex was an accuser with no evidence and his ex admitted her accusations were false. Neither LF32 nor his ex were lawyers using court services to advantage their legal positions. LF32 and/or his ex did not lie in court about service of documents. LF32 did not know where his child was for a very long time. The father in this case knew where his children were. LF32 immediately went to the police station upon coming home and finding his daughter gone. The father in this case did nothing for many, many months.... etc. Differences. The only similarity is that the women in these cases both utilized a women's shelter. I do not believe that every woman who goes to a shelter is lying about abuse.

                        My comparison of my situation was merely to point out that just because someone isn't charged with something doesn't mean the criminal act did not occur.

                        I really think that lying about service of documents could be a very important issue. Father/lawyer could be facing contempt and his application/pleadings be struck from the record.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I dont really believe that this poster knows what her ex was doing in the months she was gone. Remember the one side of the story attitude? I think there is much more to this story than what has been posted. If she had stayed in Ontario and done something there might be more sympathy but because she ran I have a feeling there is more.

                          I dont buy anything but the fact that she abducted the kids. Just about everyone here told her to file paperwork. She didnt. She didnt file anything until the ex filed paperwork.

                          And sending the stuff to the only known address he had for her isnt lying. If she had forwarded her mail it would have gotten to her. He took a chance and there was no forwarding.

                          Even her lawyer who she paid to tell her what she wanted to hear told her to go back. Was that lawyer in cahoots with her ex too? Im probably in cahoots with him for pointing out the obvious. The police, the courts, this forum, her lawyer, santa claus and the tooth fairy are all in cahoots with her ex and why? Because none of them are telling her what she wants to hear.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I just read your original post. Where is the Father of the oldest child? Does he know what is going on? I cant imagine how he is coping with all of the as well. So if your ex was successful in returning his child, that would be just the younger one?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              There are so many layers involved with fleeing/or dealing with domestic abuse or violence that the average person would not consider or know about.

                              I've been through it, and I'm certain that if I had more imformation, legal representation, and a support system at the time my approach would have been different. But here's what I've learned and here's my advice to any woman who's experienced DV.


                              1. Leave as early as possible.

                              Don't wait for him to kill you! It never get's better and all of the "I'm sorry, I'll get help, I will never do it again" in the world will never make up for the pieces of yourself you lose when you stay and "forgive". You're kids don't need to see that or feel that everyday.

                              2. Get a lawyer and speak to the police.

                              There's no guarantee that charges will be laid but telling your story is cathartic. You need to try!

                              A Good lawyer will advocate for you, not victimize you. When you meet one, you will know the difference.

                              3. If you want to move away (Get a lawyer that specializes in mobility law)

                              There are MANY cases where women are permitted to move, and cases where they were not. You don't know what a judge will decide so don't assume. You have to do what's in the best interest of your child, don't just read posts on internet forums rather, sit with a lawyer and get legal advice, and move forward from there. And make sure you have a good reason.

                              4. ...If you're married to a lawyer or a judge

                              Please get a lawyer that does not know him and one who's willing to fight for you, don't represent yourself. This is their game, they know the rules and there's a good chance that you might not play as well as they do.

                              Watch out for Procedural Fairness, Conflict of interests and any bias' that might arise. Your lawyer is supposed to advocate for you, don't be afraid to walk away if/when they don't.

                              5. Get therapy for yourself and your child.

                              I can't stress enough, the importance of working out all of the issues that lead you to that relationship/ Or that made you want to stay.

                              You will be triggered from time to time, but knowing when it happens and how to navigate your feelings will go a long way to helping you cope and move forward. Remember that life always moves forward, there's always tomorrow.

                              Lastly, the moment you decide to leave, your world will be turned upside down.
                              Understand that all abusers are Narcs. You need to educate the life out of yourself, look up co-dependency, and narcissistic abuse. My therapist specializes in DV and PTSD (I've learned that most ppl who leave abusive relations will have some degree of PTSD)

                              Your abuser should also be getting help, but most of the time they do not change. We must accept that, and focus on raising healthy children.

                              There are two masters that I highly recommend you checking out:

                              1. Richard Grannon https://www.youtube.com/user/SPARTANLIFECOACH

                              Richard is amazing. And he speaks from the perspective of a male survivor of abuse. He's still amazing.

                              2. Kris Godinez https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHk...zDnVL-d23tE6bg

                              Also, a therapist. She's not a cuddly as Richard but she states facts and she also does livestreams every weekend on her FB page.


                              6. Get your Money up!

                              A friend of mine said this to me and I laughed, but she was right. I had a small business, but I was not able to run it properly (because of obvious reasons).. That changed the moment I decided to take action.

                              Luck for you, we live in 2018. People start businesses at home, online all the time, even if it's an Etsy shop, Just visit Udemy or Youtube and start learning how to do something that you might enjoy, that will likely bring you in some extra money. Because you will need it!


                              Lastly, never let someone else's opinion of you dictate to you, who you truly are. You are not a victim. You were a target! Now it's time to pivot, and evolve into someone who is happy, safe, confident, self-reliant and abuse-free!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by kate331 View Post
                                I just read your original post. Where is the Father of the oldest child? Does he know what is going on? I cant imagine how he is coping with all of the as well. So if your ex was successful in returning his child, that would be just the younger one?

                                Her father passed away when she was an infant. I have sole custody.

                                The hearing is not about the child being turned over to the father. It's about jurisdiction.

                                Comment

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