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  • he moved out

    My fiancee, cl, moved out when I was at work. He took what he came into relationship with, plus extras. He did leave the appliances we bought, but took the snowmobile, etc..

    During relationship, I made 3x more money, helped pay his legal fees for custody battle and helped pay loan to his parents ($700/mos) for debts before we were together. I did this believing in our future together.

    Now, he will not give me back some of my belongings. He tells me that I have to have a court order to have them.

    Is he allowed to keep my stuff? He states that because he still has money owing on the washer and dryer, I am not entitled to anything. Am I responsible for his credit card debt?

    The credit card is only in his name. He left me a note saying he took everything he wanted and left the appliances of his own accord.

    I paid off his van in the amount of $3500. to his father. I have the receipt. He won't put the van in my name and I am being left to pay $400/mos for a leased vehicle (in his name) so that I have a car. I don't mind paying for the car but feel I have been taken advantage of.

    what are my rights or responsibilites?

  • #2
    You need to speak to a lawyer asap. There are free duty counsels at every Family Law Court in the land. You also need to document everything he took and start being able to prove the financial loss.

    It is disappointing that from the face of it, it seems that he is doing to you what his ex did to him.

    I feel for you but this (albeit painfull) is just a blip in your life so try to take care of yourself as best you can.

    Good luck.


    • #3
      do not let yourself get walked all over - you do have rights to the loans you paid for him and the things you got together regardless of who paid what are essentially joint assets and would be 50/50 on the split. So yes get the reciepts, find pictures (that you already have in this case for all this itms you question. No matter what there will be an accounting of sorts and you will at least get some restetution there. Not what you are looking for but at least something - better than nothing......

      Document and list and get comparable pricing off kijiji or similar......and book your consult with the lawyer. Last thing would be I was told this here just yesterday - you are not to touch each others "personal" belongings so there may be a chance that you could be given some of your personal stuff back at least?


      • #4
        in regards to the washer and dryer, did he leave those?? If he did then you should pay for them as you will be having the use of them.

        As for the money you paid off for him, did he sign an agreement with you saying he would pay you back. The way you make it sound it was a gift.


        • #5
          You are not responsible for any credit card debt in HIS name. Pull up any/all banking info you have. The transfers, the statements etc. Online banking should allow you access for the last 6 months to a year. Ask your bank for copies of returned cheques just for example - anything that can be used/shown as monies you put out on his behalf. I'm sure you have changed all pin/access codes for your accounts etc. Good Luck.


          • #6
            Ok...I know this sucks...but first things first...

            1. Change all bank pin numbers on all debit cards and credit cards now...go to your nearest ATM and do it now.
            2. If you have any joint accounts...well...close Call the 1-800 number on the back of your debit card and close
            2. Joint credit cards - if any - remove him not wait to talk to him about the 1-800 number on the back of the credit card.
            3. Do you ownt the home you're in...or are you renting?
            3. How long were you together?
            4. Do you have children together?
            4. What is the approximate "resale" value of what he took. Others have already stated how to calulate that.
            5. Document any monies paid towards his debt and vehicles. Do not pay one more cent to any debt in his name...including the leased car. You are not responsible for any debt in his name.
            6. Did he purchase you an engagement ring? Any debt you paid on his behalf could be considered a "gift"...this is your "gift" from him. I hope he's been paying for it...and not you.
            7. How nice of him to leave you the vehicle "that's in his name" that still has payments. He's all heart that one. So...when it comes to the leased car...I'd get my ass out there tomorrow and lease a different car in my name...have a friend drive the leased car to a public him and tell him where it is and that the keys are in it. If it is in his is 100% his responsibility...not yours. You owe him absolutely nothing when it comes to this car. If you really wanted to be a b** could drive like a bag car for a month, let small children play with cheereos everywhere, burn a few packs of smokes, leave a few burn holes in the seats...not pay the lease at all...and then let him deal with it. Again...not in your name...not your responsibility.

            I know this is hard...but it looks like up until now...from your side of the have been paying his way and making things easy for him. Stop Now!


            • #7
              give him back the car and tell him you do not want to be resoponsible for it. Do not the other posters comments, driving the shit out of it destroying it and leaving it in a mall with the keys in it(knowing full well it could get stolen) is not something you should even think of doing. That is the easiest way to escalate conflict. Also considering it is in your care and control right now there maybe some legal requirement of care that you have to have. I wouldnt even try anything in case it bites you in the ass. Best thing to to is take it back to the dealer, get them to sign a paper stating the condition of the car when you returned it and let him know where it is.

              The engagement ring is his if he wants it back. It is given as part of the contract to get married and now that it is called off, it goes back to him.

              Was any of the stuff he took gifts that you made to him?? It seems like you were pretty generous to him. If anything was a gift, then it is his. You should have made him sign a contract for the money you paid out for him, it kinda sounds like you never really expected it back as you thought you were going to get married. That may be a tough one but morally he should pay you.

              What was his reason for leaving?? Better for him to do it now then after you were married.
              Last edited by standing on the sidelines; 12-07-2011, 07:51 AM.


              • #8
                Thank you all for the advice. I cannot get to see a lawyer until the first week of Jan. and make too much for duty counsel to see me. So i really appreciate the advice here.

                I changed all access codes, pins, etc.. nothing left in joint names.
                Will give back the car at end of year since I have paid for it for the month.
                (he took the money from me and then let payment go NSF).

                He is driving the van I finished paying his dad for. I paid with a money order and he wrote in his goodbye letter "the van you paid my dad for". I am contemplating taking him to small claims court as this is a vehicle I have already paid for..why should i take out another loan?

                As far as the money for his loans, I did not get it in writing, so it sounds like it could be considered a gift. The way I see it, if the engagement ring is to be given back, as the contract was not fulfilled, he should pay me back the money I contributed as I did this with the intention of gettting married. What do you think?

                The loans I helped pay were for home improvements he charged on credit and then consolidated to a loan, in his parents name. Could I have a case for unjust enrichment?

                The washer and dryer he left and wrote in the letter "anything I have left, I do not want back". Maybe I have a moral obligation to pay him, but this works both ways. Also, do I pay the amount owing on credit card or the amount I could sell the items on Kijiji for?

                Can I call police to assist with getting my personal items back. I have emailed and called numerous times. He keeps putting me off.

                He is also blackmailing me. I did something wrong: on the day of his sister''s wedding, I called into work sick. He has photos of me at the wedding and is threatening to send them to my employer if I call CAS due to his treatment of my son: my counsellor is recommending that I call them)... I had been recovering from pneumonia and did not feel great that day and was only at the wedding for 3 hours and left after dinner, but still.

                I think that in the long run I will realize that I dodged a bullet but it hurts like heck right now. He is dating an ugly skinny girl and she has a child. They are staying at his place all the time: this will be the fourth woman he has had living with him in 5 years. I was his kids stepmother for 3 of them. How the hell can people justify doing this to children?


                • #9
                  This guy sounds like a piece of work, and though it's an expensive, heartbreaking lesson, you really are far better off learning this now, instead of after you married him.

                  As for the vehicle situation, if the leased car and the van are both registered in his name, they are his. Let him worry about the lease and the hassle of getting rid of the one he doesn't want. Buy a dirt cheap car to last you the next year or so until equalization is settled.

                  He left the washer and dryer and said he didn't want them, then they are yours. It doesn't matter if he hasn't finished paying them off. If he called off the marriage, then the ring is yours as far as I'm concerned too. If he demands it back, tell him he can have it after fair equalization is done, as you're considering it collateral until then.

                  Yes, I would call police to try to get your personal items back from him. He took them when he moved out? That's just outright theft, and a perfect matter for the police to deal with. What kind of items are you referring to? If they're mutual household things it won't be as clear, but if they're personal things like your clothing or jewelry, or items you had before you met him, or gifts specifically to you from friends/family, then it's defintely theft. Make an exhaustive list, find photos and/or receipts of them if you have them and give it to the police, along with the paper trail that shows you tried to deal with him reasonably first. If you haven't got a paper trail, send him a few more requests for them by email to create one.

                  The last matter, about him blackmailing you about calling in sick to work, needs to be dealt with proactively. Talk to your employer and let them know about your breakup, and the situation for that day. Admit that you attended the wedding, but didn't stay long and went home again to rest. Did you have a doctor's note about your pneumonia?

                  If CAS needs to be called because he's mistreating a child, then that needs to happen. Call his bluff and help the child. That's the most important thing you've mentioned in your whole situation. What's worse, you get a note on your personnel file, or a child continues to be abused because you took no action?

                  The second most important thing you've mentioned is that you have a relationship with your stepchildren. Keep in touch with them, let them know that you still care about them. They need stability from the sounds of it! Children need to know that your love for them isn't just switched off because their dad switched girlfriends. They need to understand that love is enduring, and that what happened between the two of you is no fault of theirs.

                  Getting going on doing some or all of these things will send him the message that you aren't a doormat, that you aren't going to let him control the breakup, that you deserve fair equalization and will work to get it. It might push him into starting to deal with you more fairly.

                  Good luck!


                  • #10
                    there is so much in this post. If you are clear on everythining 100% then great but for me it all sort of blurrs together and solid advice is broken up in all the varied responses???? Just a thought.

                    You are not disqualified from duty councl advice at the courthouse!!! Who in the (Bleep) told you that???? Duty council is not LEgal Aid which is a different isssue altogether. Duty council is there for all, they are unable to provide advice, strategy, lead you in any way. But the person you meet in duty council is a practicing family law lawyer who will stipulate that once you ask them one question and they answer it they would then be bound to never being able to represent you on this case ever (they must get your name and log it for the court and they keep a copy for themselves.

                    They truthfully answer eash question you have. You must list all the questions point by point and word them in such a way that it allows the duty coucil to answer each based on the information provided so you MUST be true to what you say and then you get the best possible answer based on that lawyer's opinion on current family law.

                    The next place you should spend some time on is a website called CANLII which lists cases that have been decided in the courts and I believe is not every case but a wide range of them. What you enter in the search parameter will dictate what your google like list of cases will come up in what I believe is the most appropriate first and then downward (I am pretty sure on this). But there is a wealth of info there.

                    You can get ffree lawyer consults - again having a solid list of questions that will allow that lawyer to respond to and in effect would now be an interview for you to accept this lawyer for representing you. SOme go to court - but not all. If you think the dollar amounts invloved warrant what going to court will cost will be a huge factor to hire a lawyer that also litigates. Finding the right lawyer is paramount as each case is unique and each lawyer has different interests or experience that lends well to YOUR case.

                    Either way you do everything in your power now to limit your losses and future obligation and responsability. Like the car that is in YOUR possession, legaly you would be facing a civil lawsuit if he could prove that you just left it there. Today you must also assume that everything is yours, every penny you invested, even if you do not have a paper trail, is or remains yours at least for now. As you break your case down into smaller pieces you will find the law is not absolute, each case is different and it is what you negotiate before going to court or along the way right up to court itself but family law is not absolute. There is plenty of grey in a black and white case but in the end you must prove the likelyhood of ehat you position is, IS what happened. The better you can proove froom 51% to 100% will dictate your likelyhood of sucess will be.

                    Take the money you gave him for loans - no receipts but if you can prove in some form or another (the intent of marriage is a type of consentual contract in its own right) and you gave this money based on this premise. If you can show this - you will get this money back in equalization. At this point I remind you to think that everything IS YOURS until you are assured by ontario family law that it is not.

                    Right off the bat I would read the Ontario Family Law act and although you didn't say if you met the condition of common law (I understand you can both still own your own homes but if you essentially lived as married couple...... this is the grey area of the law) Read the family law act and if applicable the Ontario Divorce Act. These docs are not that long and you can get it or them off the Ontarion website.

                    Hope this helps, hope this gets you to think more specific here. Smaller posts with detailed information will get you better more solid advice here as well - it is all in the quality of the information provided.

                    Get what is yours, nothing more (that is what I believe to be fair - but law is not always about fair sad to say).


                    • #11
                      Ddoll you are right. Duty Counsel is not legal aid. Anyone can speak to them, you just have to get to the court house early, put your name on the list and wait your turn. If you're the type that wants to rep yourself (bad idea) they have DC avail to go into court w/you as well for the preliminary stuff. Thing is, you will get a different DC every time but certainly to go and ask Duty Counsel some pointed questions (direction w/filling out necessary forms/affadavits etc,) regarding your matter is not a bad idea at all. Also correct: a lawyer that advises you in DC cannot be retained by you. CanLii is a great source but I believe it is only Superior Court Matters on CanLii, not Provincial Court Judgments.


                      • #12
                        point about provincial vs superior court judgements - i know there is a difference but how do you tell which is which. Like i believed as soon as you had a contested divorce you move up to superior level?? Can you explain that better?


                        • #13
                          The Provincial Court level deals with 3 issues. *Custody, *Access and *Support. It does not deal with equalization/property/matrimonial home etc. There are other differences between the two but the one thing I am certain of is the 3 issues. Also there is a small fee (at least in Ontario) when you commence a Superior Court Application (I believe it's $150-$200). For Provincial Court, no application fees are required.


                          • #14
                            DD; Appeals of any kind are in Appeal Court where the applicant becomes the Appellant, and that is in Superior Court, regardless of which level of Court the matter being appealed was in.


                            • #15
                              ok now what if a case is mixed, say with support which falls under Provincial (which I heard is a cheaper system to get thru - why I do not know because I thought lawyer fees is what kills everything) so....

                              You have a spousal support issue and a contested property (a whole truck load in our case!) issue which in our case will encompass nearly every line item I will have in my "sorry 13 B?". This is what I work on now and for the many who follow my IMHO disaster! one of the reasons it is taking so long is to prove "to her" that the numbers do not lie and sadly my brain is just not working right - so everything takes 10 times longer to get done. Wow! That is just like my physical issues that have slowed me down so much as well (But the brain not clicking has proven to be much harder to deal with and I am begining to come to the conclusion is why we are here now. But I am straying off topic so again.....

                              With split cases does it all go to the higher or do you face two trials. First handling the provoncial level issues and once resolved you then must move onto the Federal sorry Superior Court?
                              Last edited by ddol1; 12-15-2011, 11:23 PM.


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