Sepration Agreement

[MiViLaLoco]

The $$ impact depends on the level of income.

It is my understanding that this "after-tax" income benefit should be taken into consideration for child support.

For example: In our agreement (which is shared 50/50 custody) we have a clause which states I will always claim our child as "equivalent to spouse". This is there because "technically" we both pay support to each other.

When it comes to doing income taxes this can mean a difference of approx $1 - 2 thousand back a year...depending on my income that year. So...when I do my taxes I quickly do 2 calucations...one with claiming the "equavelent to spouse" and one without. I print off both forms (as I use tax software) and claim the difference as "income" when caluculating what my CS is going to be that year. I also claim the CTB and the $100 a month grant as income as well...for CS purposes.

[tombiosis]

Hi
haven't posted in a long while...but your OP reminded me of what I went through...many moons ago...
I had a friend who was a family law lawywer at the time. He advised me to "write my own" sep ag. and then take it to a lawyer when it was agreeable to both parties.
I got a few sample agreements to guide me...and worked many hours on it. I would email drafts to my child's mom, and then we would discuss problems via emails...Once we figured we had everything covered, we split the cost ($750) to have it put on legal letterhead and witnessed etc...we had a few issues that were tough, like who would actually move out. I agreed to move as long as I got the access i wanted, namely 50% minimum, with no support going either way. I ended up losing a sizezable chunk of the equity I had built in the house, but I have no regrets about that.
I guess the main point I want to hammer home here is twofold...
1- Do all your negotiating ahead of time before getting lawyers involved, or they may end up taking most or all of your equity.
and
2
this is really important....
The day will come when you will be friends with her again...you will see. I was adamant that that would never happen in my case...but it did! Its all about your child, and that child needs both parents. Remember that always.

I recall reading a book at the time, and I have never forgotten something in it.
"Make all decisions in the best interest of the child, and you will never go wrong"...so far that has been the best advice I ever received.

It isn't easy, and takes time, but someday you will look back proudly on the way you handled things if you follow that advice.
Peace
T

[Mess]

You both need to get independent legal advice (each take it to your own lawyer) and have each lawyer sign off on it for it to be iron clad. Otherwise she can contest it later.

Each lawyer signing it with each of you (*you should end up with 4 copies with 4 signatures, the lawyers keep a copy on file) is good enough, the notary doesn't really mean anything. If she doesn't get independent legal advice, just a notaray won't give you any protection from her trying to reopen it.

That said, if you have an access schedule with the children and abide by it for 6 months, you will be in a status quo situation and it would be very difficult to change the children's schedule, if not impossible. If the children are doing well a court would not change the schedule just because one parent changed their minds. If there is a material change in circumstance, the custody/access can be challenged no matter how iron-clad the agreement is.

If you equalize any property/assets properly, there is nothing to reopen.

Child support should be paid according to tables. If it is not, the agreement can still be reopened later, child support will almost always be set by the courts according to table amounts.

The main tricky thing you want to lock down is spousal support. If your ex (or you) has no possible entitlement then you are good.

Many couples do quite well without lawyers or court orders.

If you each get independent legal advice and the lawyers sign the agreement, then you can have the separation agreement registered with the courts or, more easily, incorporated into the divorced order. Talk to the court clerk or duty counsel about this.

[Marcos]

Still Confused About Common-Law Separation Agreements

Question:

If i present my partner with a Separation Agreement (i.e A letter stating some terms) -

1. Does it need to be notarized? If she signs it, does it make it legal?
2. I heard i can submit to a court as "contract" on record if we both agree to it and sign it.
3. What type of letter do i need to give her to have her leave my house?
4. If she agrees to splitting the time to Every other weekend and one day a week access for her and being able to both make the life changing decisions, do we still need a court to award custody?

Thanks, anyone.

[shellshocked22]

Sorry typo on above, should be "google" gene colman's website

[shellshocked22]

There was a post on this recently, sorry I'm not good at providing "links". However, the "gist" of it is that the agreement needs to CLEARLY show that each spouse pays CS and the amounts are offset.

One poster had it declined, even though he satisfied the criteria, because his SA simply said he paid X (which WAS the offset amount but didn't clearly spell it out).

I would have the SA clearly show each sides pay CS and the higher income earner pays the "offset" amount. In fact, I would have the SA actually say Mary earns $25K and pays $400 in month is CS. Bill earns $100k and would pay $1500 as per CS tables. Bill will pay an offset amount of $1500 - $400 = $1100 with a further clause showing how it will be updated each tax year.

I would strongly have a GOOD accountant review it. The Rev Canada rules with respect to "shared custody" in particular have changed a great deal lately.

Good "gene colman's" website; he has some good articles on it.

[billm]

...However, if you have shared custody, and BOTH pay CS (ie. via offset) you each get 50% of the credit. Makre sure the Sep Agmt is clear on this, you need precise wording...

Can you give an example of the precise wording?

[shellshocked22]

Lawyers and even accountants get confused over the various tax credits. A lot depends on the custody arrangement. It used to be that the one who paid support couldn't claim it (my , what a coincidence, another way to screw fathers !). However, if you have shared custody, and BOTH pay CS (ie. via offset) you each get 50% of the credit. Makre sure the Sep Agmt is clear on this, you need precise wording

For equivalent to spouse, you have to agree cause if you don't and you both claim, then no one gets it. With only one child, maybe you can each claim her half the year ? NOt sure. Equiv to spouse = about $2200 in your pocket !!

[LakeErie]

Hi Marcos,


Decide who will claim your child as "eqivalent to spouse" and take that into consideration when calculating income, due to tax implications.

...

... and how much of an impact this may have in terms of dollar amount, roughly?

[LakeErie]

Decide who will claim your child as "eqivalent to spouse" and take that into consideration when calculating income, due to tax implications. The same goes for the child tax credit and the $100 a month till your child is 6. ...

Hi MiViLoco,

On the Income Tax implications of "equivalent to spouse", what does it mean for divorced parents? Could you please elaborate? Thanks.

I know that either parent can claim the child as dependent, as long as the parents agree. But if one parent pays Child Support, the paying parent may not claim the child if the other parent disputes it, which is usually the case.

[Marcos]

@HammerDad,

Those are tips, i've heard them before recently from someone else.

You'r posts and information are fantastic, extremely useful and insightfull, i keep reading your trial and tribulations whenever i can.

Thank you very much.

[Marcos]

@MivilaLoca,

Thanks for your comments and pointers on access and scheduling. Ideally, a 50/50 scenario would be the best. Unfortunately, my spouse only sees dollar signs, is vengful, selfish, irrational, etc. She is quick temperated and hostile, we cannot hold down a debate on the smallest thing let alone how to raise a child. She uses the child as a tool of manipulation and speaks through her to me in the 3rd person. i.e Daddy this..., Daddy is this..Daddy did....

This is way there will be a war, i'm bitting my tongue and interact with her as little as possible so not to have yell, swear and threaten me infron of my child. This is while we are still in the same house, imagine when in tell her that we need to split up and she needs to find her own place. Her personality does not allow her to think of other and is only interested in her own gain. Her daughter is secondary to her when it comes to her public image, her money and her job.

I am both a father and a mother to my daughter more than she ever has been from the day she was born. I do all the activities, i take the sickdays, i take her to doctor's, i read her books, i bath her, feed her cook for, drop her and pick her up from the babysitter's and i pay 90% of the bills, while she pockets her entire pay cheque and bitches and complains about everything.

She is emotinally detached and simply does things like a robot, half assed and without any real care or emotion. Since the day my daughter came home from the hospital i've been singing her to sleep because her mother has been incapable because there is no "motherly nurture", instinct that society seems to think is devinely given to women. While she sat at home collection $1800/month of EI without paying a cent, i was zombie, because i was getting up to put my daughter to sleep when she walk up 4-5 times/night. All she could do is let her latch on to her nipple to put her to sleep and no she wasn't feeding but that was the only way she could put her to bed.

I would sing her to sleep and all the ex could say is..oh, its because you have a monotone voice that she falls asleep. No, i do not have a monotone voice, its because, i'm calm, it sooths hers and she feels the love, that's why she falls asleep with me and not her.

As soon as she found a job, it like she forgot she has a child, comes home late, leaves early, never once has she called from work to find out how her child is, how she adjusted to daycare, etc. I called every single day, when she was at home with the baby.

Yeah, i'm rambling too. Bottom line is, you're kind lucky you can have a peacefull agreement.

[HammerDad]

Do not agree to allowing the child to leave the matrimonial home without an agreement in place providing for custody and parenting time. If your ex should try to leave with the child, you

a) do not restrict them from leaving (ie. block the door or pull the child out of her arms)...that will be a fast track to a domestic violence complaint, probable restraining order and you being bent over and barely being able to see your child.

b) do go see your lawyer and file a motion to have the child returned to the matrimonial home, request temporary custody and provide for an access schedule.

But don't agree to her leaving with the kid, otherwise you will be at her mercy to see the child.

[staysingle]

What level of education have both of you achieved ( degrees, diplomas etc)? Approx. how much income is generated by each a year?

[MiViLaLoco]

Hi Marcos,

Sorry you're here.

Glad you're still in the home though.

I posted a bit earlier tonight on another thread about access.

Why do you think there is going to be a war? Access should be 50/50...period. You are leaving each other, not your child.

My ex and I separated when our son was 3 1/2. His lawyer advised him to ask for 40% as that is all he'd get. I was mortified at that advice, as our son needs him in his life more than 1 or 2 days a week and every other weekend. So, right from the start our access has been 50/50...at my insistence (and yes a little manipulation because we used a "trial period" for 50% because the ex couldn't get his head around being 100% responsible for our son 50% of the time.).

Was it hard on both the ex and I...you bet! He had to learn how to be a father, and had to learn how to live without our son 50% of the time. The first year was brutal for us. Our son, however, took to the arrangement like a duck to water and loves having 2 homes. We have been doing this for 2 years now...with absolutely no regrets or issues for our son. He gets the best of both of us as parents...no denying that.

Access and custody should not be about $$$...it should be about what is best for your child. If your ex wants more than 40% of the time...why??? Why would you allow yourself to be a bystander in your child's life? Why were you a good dad before the separation...yet the day after...not? Do not allow fear, manipulation, bullying, etc., to deprive your child of the best of both her parents.

Your separation agreement should include first of all...the access agreement and offset child support method for support.

Your agreement can be 50/50...however you wish to arrange it. There is a lot of advice on here with regards to schedules. Just use the search option.

Custody should also be shared 50/50. Again...you are leaving each other, not your child.

Decide who will claim your child as "eqivalent to spouse" and take that into consideration when calculating income, due to tax implications. The same goes for the child tax credit and the $100 a month till your child is 6.

Talk about the holidays, birthdays, family events, travelling, first right of refusal (should either of you need a babysitter on your time), make-up time (should you have a business trip or travel that cuts into your time).

School...make sure you have in your agreement that she will go to school in the neighbourhood you both now reside. This will stop your ex from purchasing, or renting, a home in an area that is inconvenient for you to get to on your week (yes, this has happened).

Have in your agreement how daycare will be handled. Sick days, etc. How her secondary education will be paid for (we have in our agreement 1/3 for him, 1/3 for me, and 1/3 for our son to be responsible for).

I'm starting to ramble...so... Basically, cover everything you can in regards to raising your child till 21 or so. This will save a lot of headache later as your child grows older.

Good luck...