50/50 custody - Child Support & Spousal

[sonsmom]

Question - Looking for some answers . . .

Currently have 50/50 custody of my son. If I make $45,000 and spouse makes $81,000, married for 24 years, is there a set amount for child support and support. In split custody do they bring up your pays close to equalize. My spouse is currently refusing to pay anything and not responding to any legal papers. Last thing was he fired his lawyer and now saying he is getting another one - though who knows.

Can you help out.

[billm]

Very simple for Child Support (CS)

For Ontario, the table says you pay $415 per month, he pays $727, so for shared custody, you subtract the difference and he pays you $312 per month. You adjust this every year in July based on your previous years tax return. You share in medical and dental expenses and extra ordinary expenses (like high level sports etc) according to your income ratio (he pays 64%, you pay 36%, though spousal support should be considered when calculating this ratio).

Not so simple for Spousal Support (SS) as this is under common law etc. The details matter! How long together etc. Some believe you should balance the incomes given that you have shared custody to within 45%, but I don't think that is fair - what happened in the relationship should determine what happens after with respect to spousal support I think, as you are no longer together....

Also the matter of separating assets is not clear as this is common law. It depends on what happened during your relationship.

So as far as $312 per month goes - it takes a long time to pay the lawyer bill to regain such a small amount, but you have many years ahead so forcing the issue in court (or as some would say) or forcing the issue by threatening and moving toward court, may be worth it.

[sonsmom]

Very simple for Child Support (CS)

For Ontario, the table says you pay $415 per month, he pays $727, so for shared custody, you subtract the difference and he pays you $312 per month. You adjust this every year in July based on your previous years tax return. You share in medical and dental expenses and extra ordinary expenses (like high level sports etc) according to your income ratio (he pays 64%, you pay 36%, though spousal support should be considered when calculating this ratio).

Not so simple for Spousal Support (SS) as this is under common law etc. The details matter! How long together etc. Some believe you should balance the incomes given that you have shared custody to within 45%, but I don't think that is fair - what happened in the relationship should determine what happens after with respect to spousal support I think, as you are no longer together....

Also the matter of separating assets is not clear as this is common law. It depends on what happened during your relationship.

So as far as $312 per month goes - it takes a long time to pay the lawyer bill to regain such a small amount, but you have many years ahead so forcing the issue in court (or as some would say) or forcing the issue by threatening and moving toward court, may be worth it.

I'm new to this site and actually posted it in the wrong area. We've been married for 24 years, and not common law. With that would it bring it up to 45%. My lawyer is saying even with 50/50 split I should be around 45% , though don't know if she's taking me a ride for my money to fight for it.

[NBDad]

For Child support the calculations are stupidly easy.

For spousal support, you are looking at an average of 12-24 years of spousal support, plus equalization of net assets. (Household assets - household debts / 2)

Spousal support depends on a LOT of things as it goes off your NDI (Net Disposable Income). It takes into consideration tax deductions, Child Support/Spousal Support Payments, etc etc. He'd be in a higher tax bracket than you, and therefore would pay MORE taxes on his income.

Ballpark though, you are likely WELL over 45% of his NDI. Figuring he pays between 37-42% in tax, it'd leave him somewhere in the 50,000 NET Range. With you, you'd wind up somewhere in the 35000 net range, which is 70% of him. Of course, this is just absolutely random numbers using JUST your incomes....actual spousal calculation takes a hell of a lot more into consideration.

Your lawyer should have access to the software required to do the calculations to see if you even qualify for spousal. Have them run the numbers and show you the results.

[dinkyface]

Did quick calculations on TaxTips.ca - Canadian tax calculator, assuming you (not your ex) claim your son as a dependent and receive all of UCCB, and you both live in Ontario.

You: 45K + 1200 UCCB minus taxes leaves you 37930, plus the $312/month child support = 41674 (average tax rate = 17.9&#37

Ex: 81K minus taxes leaves him 58718, minus the $312/month child support = 54974. (average tax rate = 27.5%)

So your NDI, just based on taxes and CS, is 41674/54974 = 76% of your ex's.
I'm sure there are additional factors that go into that calculation, but still I think that's pretty high, meaning you might not qualify for spousal support.

[representingself]

I believe that the $1200 UCCB is only applicable to children up to 6 years old.

[NBDad]

You are correct

In any event, 1200 is not going to make or break her case for spousal. At a glance, she doesn't qualify. Plug in the other data and maybe she does....it's not something we can really answer for her without a truck ton of other financial and personal data being provided.

IF she qualifies for spousal, it'd be a very very minimal amount. Equalization is where she should focus her attention, after 24 years I imagine they have some sort of assets/RRSP's/savings...she can also claim against his pension (if applicable).

[sonsmom]

Here's what my lawyer had in her letter to my ex. I have undertaken a SSAG calculation using the set off approach to child suppport. The range of spousal support is $191 - $537 - $1,076. Set off amount of child support of $325/mo and spousal support of $1,000/mo. (note that spousal support is tax deductable therefore the net expense to you of paying spousal support is only $613).

By everything that I've seen posted, I'm getting the feeling that I'd probably end up with squat. So if that's the case, why would my lawyer be saying above?

Can anyone help me out.

[Mess]

Spousal support when calculated for "with children" is supposed to be net, after tax and after child support is paid/received.

That amount of spousal sounds like your lawyer just did a calculation of spousal support alone, and then child support alone.

If I got a letter like that, I would laugh and tell my ex to have fun trying to explain those niumbers to the judge.

It's possible your lawyer is aiming high to see if you can get anything at all. You can bet you will get a strongly worded asnwer from your ex's lawyer. This kind of tactic is just going to drag out your negotiations, and your lawyers will charge about $100 per letter.

[billm]

...
Spousal support depends on a LOT of things as it goes off your NDI (Net Disposable Income). It takes into consideration tax deductions, Child Support/Spousal Support Payments, etc etc. ...

SS does not HAVE to be an NDI split - I hate the NDI split! - it would make me feel still married. If I bust my hump and make a lot more money now that I am separated, why should my ex share in that? If my ex does not work very hard, or makes poor financial choices etc, why should I share in that loss? We are not together, and don't even like each other!! Also, if SS is for a limited time, why should the NDI split be the same and not have your dependence fade as time goes on (ie the higher income earner shares less over time).

My agreement is not NDI split, it is based on what happened in my marriage - damage to my ex's career, which we ascertained, so I compensate her for that damage (not all of it, she has to take some of the hit too). How much we each make after we split DOES NOT CHANGE my SS obligation to her, nor does remarriage etc, and my SS payment drops every year until it fades away. My career was not damaged by the marriage, hers was, so I pay her. Simple, predictable, fair, and business like.

It seems over time this forum is accepting the SSAG as simply the way to go however I feel it is not fair in all cases, and the fact that your financial health is directly tied to your ex, and for a variable "we'll look at this in the future" amount of time is wrong - you're not together anymore, why would your future be tied together! Okay, if you have permanent career damage (had kids young, never went to school, and are now old), fine then it is impossible to untie your finances, but otherwise SS should treated like a business arrangement that is now over and should be predictable, and finite, and based on the past, not the future.

And having kids or not should not effect SS, that is what CS is for!

[ONdad]

Do the spousal support guidelines look to bring the supportee up to 45% of the higher wage earner's net income, or 45% of the combined NDI?

If spouse A makes $100,000, and spouse B makes $35,000 (all figures net), would spouse B get roughly $10k or would they get about $25k?

[billm]

Do the spousal support guidelines look to bring the supportee up to 45% of the higher wage earner's net income, or 45% of the combined NDI?

If spouse A makes $100,000, and spouse B makes $35,000 (all figures net), would spouse B get roughly $10k or would they get about $25k?

They look at NDI - so you have to list your expenses etc - total crap to have to be tied so closely to your ex. You should split according to income (if you are in to balancing incomes, which I'm not!) - who care how you spend the money and what your NDI is, it should be based on incomes, not NDI anyway...

Anyway, you don't have to follow the guidelines, you can come up with any agreement you can agree to.

[NBDad]

Billm is correct...well to a point. Obviously a bit of a sore spot for him.

Yes, you can negotiate pretty well anything you want, and as long as both parties have independent legal advice, you are all set. (Caveat...Child Support is LESS flexible....)

The standard determination of Spousal support goes off your Net Disposable Income....it brings the lower earner up to 45% of the higher earner for a preset period of time. (typically 6 months to 1 year per year of marriage....some provinces have special clauses regarding "common law" marriage....check your provincial laws or contact a legal professional)

Yes you can negotiate otherwise...but if the other party is insistent on being stubborn, then this gives the court system a common methodology to apply.

Is it perfect...not hardly.

[NBDad]

Do the spousal support guidelines look to bring the supportee up to 45% of the higher wage earner's net income

This one if I recall correctly. Lower income earner brought to 45% of the higher income earner.

[ONdad]

Thanks guys.