Stay or Leave...

[shlaba]

Back again with more problems with more questions so here i go...she refuses to list property even brought in another realtor with 2 different list prices going to retain a real estate lawyer for a partion by sale of home..good idea??..shes threatening to bring up all the negative things throughout the 7yr relationship..should i have a real estate lawyer or someone else?..alls i want is sale of house to move on and we have a property seperation agreement that she forced me to sign last may when property was to be originally listed..i dont care about the pissing contest of he said she said but will that matter?..its close to unbearable to continue to reside here, can i remove my possesions and stop paying my half of the bills until the house is listed or do i give up my rights if i vacate??, also should i notify the lender of this?...probably gonna have some more questions but i would really appreciate any help with these.

p.s. live in ontario if matters

[AngieJ]

Whatever you do, DO NOT LEAVE THE HOUSE!

Get a lawyer now if you don't already have one.

Hopefully others on this site who have had to deal with this can offer more advice!

Good luck

Angie

[Berner_Faith]

First...she can bring up whatever negative stuff she wants...but when/if they gets in front of a judge they won't give a damn what her emotions are, so don't worry about what negative he said/she said stuff she wants to bring up.

I don't know much about the other of it... but just wanted to say that no matter what she wants to say about you...its not going to matter how she feels

[shlaba]

so far i stuck here and the real estate lawyer the way to go??..he's been really helpful but to move forward i need to give him retainer, was going to start this tomorrow..oh also since i had realtor here was told to move as much personal stuff outta house for the sale AND states in property seperation agreement that i can have "all items brought into the relationship, personal possesions and gifts" so i started to remove some of those things today. *agreement was NOT drawn up by a lawyer but we both signed

[staysingle]

Your in a difficult position.
A couple of questions:
a) who's name is the house registered with?
b) are their children in the house?
c) How far along is the separation agreement/divorce
d) Are you married (if so how long?) Are you common law?

[ddol1]

I read your posts and you definately are confusing two completely different or seperate issues. One which id your relationship of 7 years. I would suggest for you to get a better legal understanding - if you can get to your local family law courthouse - there they have people who can help you with your seperation (there is also some one called a duty council who will answer your relationship and property questions to what the law in Ontario says)

Second is the selling of your home which at this time you both still live in it. As Anjie said DO NOT MOVE OUT OF THE HOUSE! but it sounds like you have hit the point that you need to protect yourself so make sure you do not have any joint accounts for money - if you do close them. Once you move out things for you will get much harder for you. Next you confuse a sell your house lawyer or real estate agent and last is a divorce lawyer for help with your seperation and divorce if you are married and not just common law.

Even if you sign some form of agreement what you post says that you are confused and there is a small chance that what you think you agreed to was not what you think and last if what you did was actually done well enough to be concidered legal. You are an adult and you did agree to something but it should have been done in a way that it respected the laws here in Ontario.

these items are the things you can get answers for sure when you visist the legal council at your courthouse (that is a lawyer who will answer your questions for free. But you did make it sound that a retainer for a lawyer must be...... You never need to be rushed when it comes to this stuff. First you must really understand what is happening. You do say you have contacted a property lawyer which is a lawyer that you will need to hire to sell the house and do the proper paper woork for the sale of your home. You do not need to worry about paying a lawyer a retainer for this - for all the houses i bought and sold I never paid a retainer. A divorce lawyer for your seperation is a different thing - they will want a retainer but please do find your local courthouse and see the duty council lawyer there first (you can go as often as you want to ask your questions and you will not need to pay any money for this - when you understand more then you can make bigger decisions.

Last hing i will say is the moving your personal things out of the house. This would be pictures of your family and personal items that should not be there when people go to look at your home to buy it. This does not mean to move out of the house, move your furniture or your bed...... your realestate agent you agree on to sell your house - they will help you with this so do not do anything before it is time to do something........ You do not say if you own the house or both of you have your name on the house. these are very important details you need to understand before you do anything or sign any agreements. Take the time to understand and if you need help maybe you can ask a friend to help you get through all these very important details

[shlaba]

1st...common law
2nd...been on mortgage and title for just over 2 yrs
3rd....canada real estate law lawyer=not for actual sale of home but was reffered to me by real estate friend and was told after showning him my property seperation agreement that she not holding up to her end of agreement and to file for partion by sale but need to give him retainer to start
4th...her 19yr old son moved back here but we dont have any children together
5th...one joint acct but she already shorted mortgage payment that i had to cover myself...if i cancel the acct how can i pay my part of mortgage?
6th...started to move some of my furnature and stuff from rest of the house that i had long before relationship but not my stuff in the bedroom i stuck in.
7th...only rush is that ive been waiting for almost a yr to move on and the way of life here is out of control, from drugs in the home to being yelled at and called names everyday.
8...have a domestic assault from over 5yrs ago...police charged me not her but she called, it was pushing match didnt beat her
9...just a property seperation agreement i had to sign about split of proceeds of house and that i'm to pay off more joint debt than her

hope this helps with clearing up some facts and i will look into local court house but with current medical issues needing me in and outta hospitals i'm barely working as it is and dont know if i can get there

[NBDad]

1st...common law

Ok, first question...whose house is it? Yours? Hers? Purchased together? Who put the money down? How much was put down?

2nd...been on mortgage and title for just over 2 yrs

When is it up for renewal?

5th...one joint acct but she already shorted mortgage payment that i had to cover myself...if i cancel the acct how can i pay my part of mortgage?

Talk to the bank and see if they'll do a monthly payment. That way you can do an internet bill payment to the mortgage account or something. Otherwise, expect to cover the mortgage yourself each month, if she covers her half, then you're gold. If not, you are covered. Just keep track of it.

7th...only rush is that ive been waiting for almost a yr to move on and the way of life here is out of control, from drugs in the home to being yelled at and called names everyday.

Don't engage. Get a personal voice recorder and wear it at all times when in the home.

9...just a property seperation agreement i had to sign about split of proceeds of house and that i'm to pay off more joint debt than her

How much joint debt are you talking about? How much equity is built up in the home?

[shlaba]

1st...her house origanally with her ex-husband, i moved in 7yrs ago and automatically assumed half the bills...they put money down, not sure on the amount but i have renovated basically the entire home ($10 000 in materials)
2nd...suckered into renewing mortgage just late last yr on the intent that the relationship was going to b worked on and 2nd mortgage was matured
5th...unsure about this cause if shes short on mortgage it will screw me over as well..shes used to me begging and borrowing to make up for what she doesnt wanna pay.
7th...i can do that!!!??..i can record all the stuff going on!!??
9th..total joint debt is about$11 500 and with all renos taking into account current appraisal about $80 000 of equity that i'm supposed to get 40% of by her property seperation agreement.


Am i using the right lawyer for this??..from what he says this is cut and dry for partion by sale

[billiechic]

NO! you need a family lawyer! when the house sells you can have the fiunds held in trust until you both agree and sign a written agreement about how they will be distributed.

Yes, wear a voice recorder! You only need one person's permission (yours ) it was the best $70 I ever spent!

[shlaba]

$70 sounds like a plan to me...y do i need a family lawyer and not the canada real eastate law lawyer ive been talking too?....the signed agreement we have spefically states that after joint debt is paid off its a 60/40 split in her favor from remainder of proceeds...plus i dont think there will b any way i can afford a family lawyer, not with health issues and missed time at work!!...i getting a really BAD feeling i screwed..thought that with agreement its basic

[NBDad]

1st...her house origanally with her ex-husband, i moved in 7yrs ago and automatically assumed half the bills...they put money down, not sure on the amount but i have renovated basically the entire home ($10 000 in materials)

You guys are common law right? Basically she's going to claim that you paying "1/2 the bills" was "occupational rent". Can you prove the $10000 in materials? Receipts/bank statements/etc?

Here's the thing, you should be obligated to receive your 10,000 back you spent in materials, + you can argue for a share of the increased value of the home as a result of those renovations.

d...suckered into renewing mortgage just late last yr on the intent that the relationship was going to b worked on and 2nd mortgage was matured

I was going to suggest sucking it up and floating along until it's up for renewal. She can't renew it without your signature.

7th...i can do that!!!??..i can record all the stuff going on!!??

Google Voice is your friend dude. It's not typically worth jack shit in family law, however to protect you from a false DV charge...totally worth it's weight in gold. The quickest way for her to screw you over is to provoke a fight, call the cops, claim you hit her, and then have you hauled away. She files a restraining order. If any of it sticks, jab a fork in yourself, you're done.

Move into a separate room if you haven't already. Put a lock on the door. Get anything of value that YOU brought into the relationship (not what you bought together) the hell out. Gather copies of any financial records (ie. mortgage docs, savings, accounts, RRSPs, etc.).

Get photo/video evidence of any items purchased during your relationship. Then get ALL that evidence out of the house. Rent a storage locker, a safety deposit box, store it at a friend's place, etc.

Practice "radio silence". Don't engage her, don't speak to her. Until the ink is dry on the legally binding agreement, it's fuzzy pink bunnies and glitter farting unicorns.

If there are any services in just YOUR name (ie. phone, internet, cable, etc) then cancel them. Buy a prepaid cell and use that. Do your own grocery shopping, buy only food you like (her hating it is a bonus, but not needed). Do you normally do laundry? Do ONLY your own. Clean up after JUST yourself. Her mess, and her son's is HER problem.

Any joint lines of credit, credit cards, etc....call the holder and have them frozen. You can't cancel them with a balance owing, but you CAN make it so no further withdrawals can be made on the remaining credit. Try and make arrangements to pay 1/2 the mortgage directly, let her worry about her own 1/2.

You need to engage the services of a FAMILY LAWYER. What you have here is a common law relationship with equity issues that need to be addressed. (specifically regarding the joint debt, the cost/value of the renos you performed and the resultant constructive trust claim you may have on the equity in the home).

[shlaba]

to NBdad...and anyone else...i have moved into seperate room and everything...and pls dont get irritated but with a jointly signed property division agreement from May 20th/2011 and the mortgage and title in both our names why isnt it a simply partion by sale??..i cant afford any local family lawyers i've contacted...and no another 2 1/2yrs before mortgage renewal is wayyyy too long...oh and hydro is in my name but how can i cancel a required service??

[NBDad]

This agreement you made, did either of you have independent legal advice when signing it?

If not, may as well use it for toilet paper, it's not worth much more than that.

It's NOT just a property issue, it's an assets issue as well. (given the presence of the joint debts as well)

[ddol1]

billiechic - yes the recorder was the best thing i bought - i never recorded the day to day stuff and in the end I never recorded her voice once! Even th eday i was arrested. My bad but i used to leave it on 24/7 ready to record with one button press. I had the kids get it for me and they never found it - my divorce files were on a usb and my son picked that up right after the cop put it on the counter. (he knew what it was - my son - he knew it was my personal files and he kept it that way) but they could never find the recorder....until a couple of weeks later when he was working in the workshop - it was on, batteries dead and "thrown" across the room from where we stood. When the ex went crazy when I would not engage i "must have reached for it to turn it on and she went wild fligging her arms all over the place - I now know she knocked it out of my hands just before i could hit the big red button.

Long but i tried everyway to have it auto record and it recorded everything in my pocket that is - but the voices were always too muted.

Overall I practiced the best method and that was - DO NOT ENGAGE - EVER! If she started I dropped what i was doing, said not a word and left. I also tried to make sure i was never alone so I "sat where one of the kids was already parked and happy and I would ask the kid if i could sit near them - they always said yes. If I was with a kid then she was always fairly good! Alone she converted into the "devil from hell" I like that description one of the posters here gave her - fit so well.

Last is the recording can't be used as a record in court(very easy to manipulate a recording). the best you could hope for is the cop listening to it before they decide to put the cuffs on you. I have had a few people message that even that didn't matter - they arrested because it allows the cop to maintain their monthly quota..........