Ex's lawyer not signing off on Sep Agmt

[shellshocked22]

Long story short....

We both have lawyers. However, my ex's lawyer is refusing to sign the independent legal representation form. They've reviewed it but in MY opinion ex's lawyer is pushing her to screw me over (some more lol) and is (in my opinion) disappointed he won't get a long running and expensive (for us) legal feud.

She's gone from being satisfied with the Sep Agmt draft when we reviewed it prior to lawyers to now feeling she's not getting what "she should get" (in opinion of her lawyer). I asked my lawyer for his "honest opinion" if he was my ex's lawyer and he feels that it's a fair deal.. He's not pushing me to go with less for ex and/or go to court.

I make decent money so let's just say that I suspect most of the support receipients on this forum would KILL to get the kind of deal I'm proposing. Ex will make more money from support than most people who work a decent full time job. My lawyer feels SS and CS are OK.

Ex's lawyer is saying words to the effect of "you don't need a lawyer to sign off on it; just the two of you sign and have signatures witnessed".

HOWEVER, MY understanding is that if the Independent Legal Advise isn't signed (which basically says lawyer has explained the Sep agmt, the client understands it, and other party isn't exerting undue influence) THEN later on it gives a big loophole to throw out the Sep Agmt. I don't want to sign something which is unenforcable but she IS willing to sign it.

By the way, the "undue influence" thing kills me. IN a divorce, BOTH parties are under extreme stress. Quite frankly I think I'm being forced to pay way too much but of course ex thinks she should get more. I'm sure everyone would love to fight in court IF it was "free" but of course it isn't. So, is "fear" of getting wiped out financially in court "undue influcence" and one party can argue later the deal shouldn't hold ?

Anyway, I would appreciate any comments on this. IF her lawyer refuses to sign the independent Legal advise/no undue influence ); even though the Sep Agmt itself requires my ex and I to confirm "no undue influence from anyone" what happens ?

Is the agreement useless (ie. easily overturned later without it ) ?

Is the agreement fine ?

To confirm it will hold up later if challenged, does she HAVE to get a lawyer to sign off ?

Any help would be appreciated.

[Mess]

Is the equalization of assets done fairly and would she have any reason to challenge it? If it is fair, it doesn't matter if the separation agreement is overturned, the equalization will be settled.

Whether the separation agreement is signed off by the lawyers or not, custody can always be reopened, but you need grounds, and you need a material change in circumstance. Even if the agreement is void, she couldn't just challenge custodial rights in a few years on a whim. If she has reason, then the agreement doesn't prevent reopening.

Child support should ordinarily be done according to the Federal Guidelines. If you are making that much money, you may be off the charts? No one here can really advise you on this. Otherwise if your income is covered by the Guidelines and you are paying the correct amount, then there is nothing to challenge. You haven't explained enough for us to comment on this.

The main issue here would be spousal support, and in your own words, this is a good deal for you, meaning she could likely get more from a court challenge. In this area, she could claim that she received advice from her lawyer not to sign, the lawyer refused to sign off on the ILA and she signed under duress. She could very likely reopen this section later, but not the other sections unless she had cause.

I am not a lawyer but this is my understanding from own research.

[shellshocked22]

Thanks for reply Mess. Spousal support is indeed an area which is grey as we know. I've offered ex a fair deal (although I guess fair is in the eye of the beholder). By the way, my case is somewhat complicated and the DivorceMate calcs can vary depending upon info which is input. However, I'm in the ballpark on that.

So, let's say ex's lawyer refuses to sign and I don't want the agreement to be vulnerable to challenge later on because of it.

HOW do I deal with it ? Should I insist ex get another lawyer to sign off ? There's little point in signing a contract which isn't enforceable in my opinion. Doesn't the fact that we BOTH acknowledge in the main Sep Agmt there is no "undue influence" protect from this happening.

By the way, there are some issues in the agreement where MY lawyer feels I'm taking a risk and could get burned and he wants me to sign a waiver to that effect (has to deal with SS). Does that mean I can overthrow the agreement later if it doesn't suit me ?

It's so frustrating ; is a deal a deal or what !

[FaithandMorals]

I would shop around in your town for Family Law specialists in seperation agreements. I would start by asking your lawyer for a list and ask your ex to go to one of them for a second opinion.
I know it is not guaranteed but it is worth a shot if you want to stay out of court.
I would also remember the family law rule that no order is ever final because situations can always change.

[Rioe]

I don't see why a lawyer wouldn't sign whatever agreement you brought to them. They only have to sign that they offered you advice on it, not that they agree with what is being signed.

My ex's lawyer thought he was an idiot for signing our agreement, but signed off that he had said so, and that was that.

[NBDad]

Ex's lawyer is saying words to the effect of "you don't need a lawyer to sign off on it; just the two of you sign and have signatures witnessed".

Lawyer is obviously trying to set things up to be challenged. Insist she have independent legal advice, even if you have to get a list from your lawyer and pay for her to have the consult. They need to sign off on the fact that they explained things to her and that she understands.

If the lawyer refuses to do so, it can cause headaches down the road. Without legal advice on both sides, the agreement isn't worth the paper it's written on. SOME things are pretty black and white (ie. CS and equalization) but grey areas like spousal aren't, and you'd be best served to get her a lawyer that WILL sign it.

I also hope you put a firm termination date on the spousal.