Child’s Passport – who keeps it?

[LakeErie]

Here is the situation:

Parents do not get along well. Separation is mostly likely to happen. Mom wants to apply for the child’s first passport to travel to her home country in Asia. Dad totally objects the application of a passport at the moment, and doesn’t want the child to leave the country for now. Mom filled out the Form anyway and already asked a friend who signed it as guarantor. The only thing left in the process is dad’s signature.

I know that probably it will be hard for the Mom to get the passport alone without the Father’s consent. But if 2 or 3 years down the road the parents end up separated/divorced and the Child does get her passport (and assume both parents have shared custody of the child), in that case who keeps the passport? If the passport is in the Mom’s hand, she can basically take the child to the Asian country where her extended family has lived. On the other hand, if Dad keeps the passport the mom may make all kinds of similar allegations given the lack of trust.

Anyone has any experience or suggestions? Thanks.

[WorkingDAD]

Here is the situation:

Parents do not get along well. Separation is mostly likely to happen. Mom wants to apply for the child’s first passport to travel to her home country in Asia. Dad totally objects the application of a passport at the moment, and doesn’t want the child to leave the country for now. Mom filled out the Form anyway and already asked a friend who signed it as guarantor. The only thing left in the process is dad’s signature.

Very bad timing to apply for Passport. Mom's applications without Dad's signature most likely will be rejected. Dad can freak out (fear that child will be abducted) and "do not get along well" can get much much worse.

I know that probably it will be hard for the Mom to get the passport alone without the Father’s consent. But if 2 or 3 years down the road the parents end up separated/divorced and the Child does get her passport (and assume both parents have shared custody of the child), in that case who keeps the passport? If the passport is in the Mom’s hand, she can basically take the child to the Asian country where her extended family has lived. On the other hand, if Dad keeps the passport the mom may make all kinds of similar allegations given the lack of trust.

Keep in mind that currently passport valid for 5 years. Just put your self in dads shoes - would you agree to him go with a child ?

Down the road parents will put in separation agreement or court order where child's passport will be and define child's mobility rules.

When parents separated and share custody of the child (even when one parent have custody and other access) Mom/Dad can not just take child with her/him. Other parent need to provide written consent allowing other parent to travel with a child.

I hope that will give you an idea.
good luck and try to make it as smooth as possible for the sake of a child.

[MommaMouse]

Both parents must give consent to a child leaving the country, even with sole custody. So, it really does not matter who holds the passport, but you can put it into your agreement

[dinkyface]

There's no magic answer on who keeps it. It will come down to trust. If the situation is really bad, then they can agree that a third party (trusted by both) should hold on to it. Logically, it makes more sense that the parent who is more likely to need it will keep it.
If you don't hold it, and it turns out you cannot get it from the other parent (i.e. they're playing games) for a agreed on trip, an emergency motion can be used (that worked very well for me). Your agreement/order should be clear that the passport will be provided at least 7 days in advance of the trip.

If you don't hold it, then you may fear abduction by the other parent. Very likely they will NOT need a consent letter from you to exit Canada (mommamouse - this is from experience as a dad traveling alone internationally with a toddler girl who does not even have my last name). Ensure your court order is clear on what travel is permitted, and on details of your access schedule. This will make it clearer to make abduction charges if it DOES occur.

Unfortunately, unless you can show clear risk factors for abduction (based on past behaviour and all circumstances e.g. family/support location/attitude, financial situation, dual citizenship), there's not much ground for blocking issuance of a passport, and not much you can do to prevent abduction. But if there are, then don't agree to the passport. And possibly also talk to passport canada to let them know of your fears (they were very helpful to me).

See the Canadian Immigration/Foreign Affairs website for tips on preventing abduction, and what to do if it occurs.

[WorkingDAD]

If you don't hold it, then you may fear abduction by the other parent. Very likely they will NOT need a consent letter from you to exit Canada (mommamouse - this is from experience as a dad traveling alone internationally with a toddler girl who does not even have my last name). Ensure your court order is clear on what travel is permitted, and on details of your access schedule. This will make it clearer to make abduction charges if it DOES occur.

On Canadian Passport? I am not sure how it can be done ... Can you provide more details? It not like I need it for doing it but to prevent it in my case... With dual citizenship is different story but on Canadian Passport?

Unfortunately, unless you can show clear risk factors for abduction (based on past behaviour and all circumstances e.g. family/support location/attitude, financial situation, dual citizenship), there's not much ground for blocking issuance of a passport, and not much you can do to prevent abduction. But if there are, then don't agree to the passport. And possibly also talk to passport canada to let them know of your fears (they were very helpful to me).

It's called Lock List. So passport can not be issued without some extra paperwork.

[LTD_Edition]

Quick question to all of this....What happens if mother has passports, and father wants to take child to another province for vacation without even consulting the mother. Can the mother call the airport on the day off and tell the boarding agent that the mother's permission was not given.

[Mess]

The mother can do whatever she wants. She can jump off a cliff or run the father over with her car. That doesn't mean there won't be repercussions.

There is no law against the father taking the children to another province for vacation and he does not need the mother's permission. However if the mother calls the airport and says the father is "abducting" the children, the guards will be obliged to respond, just like they would if the mother called the father a terrorist and said he had a bomb in his suitcase.

The father would have every right to bring the mother to court over this, and it would be grounds for the father to seek full custody since the mother was showing she was antagonistic and unco-operative with custody matters and not acting in the best interests of the children.

[Epona]

LTD_Edition -- you don't need passports to travel between provinces. Passports are required when travelling outside the country.
If mother has passports and father wants to take kid(s) to another province for a holiday, there is nothing he mother can do to prevent it, though she could become unpleasant about it (and possibly vice-versa) and relations between them will be even more strained. It's wise and considerate to supply the other parent with a travel itinerary (though if anticipating other parent blocking travel, or trying to, perhaps send the details after departure though that would infuriate me if I were on the receiving end). Passports are not required to travel to another province/ for travel within the country.

[Epona]

I keep the kids passports. I filled out the applications, had their pictures taken, applied and paid for them. The passports are owned by Canada, not the person they are issued to. When the father supplies the information as recommended by Government officialdom, I will gladly "surrender" the passports to enable the children to travel.

[dinkyface]

Parental adbuction in most general terms is the act of denying the other parent's time with the child. If the access schedule is precisely defined (i.e. with days/times), then this schedule must be respected. If there are agreed on provisions for travel/vacation time, then they also must be respected. But if your order only indicates that a non-custodial parent will have 'reasonable access' to the child, then abduction is harder to claim.

If you are in a high conflict situation, then it is better have an order that is very precise in terms of access time.

Also, if your agreement indicates 'reasonable access', then I believe a parent with sole custody can apply for a passport without the other parent's signature. This is because 'reasonable access' implies some sort of cooperation/trust between the parents.

An airline might require passports as photo id for domestic travel. This is an airline policy, not a family law 'rule'.

[dinkyface]

On Canadian Passport? I am not sure how it can be done ... Can you provide more details?

Yes, Canadian citizens traveling to Europe on Canadian passports. Just book your flights, show the passport at the airport and go. They all smile at you and nobody asks any questions. They MIGHT ask questions and want to see a consent letter after you've landed back in Canada, before they let you back into the country (the stupidity is incredible, I know).

[WorkingDAD]

Yes, Canadian citizens traveling to Europe on Canadian passports. Just book your flights, show the passport at the airport and go. They all smile at you and nobody asks any questions. They MIGHT ask questions and want to see a consent letter after you've landed back in Canada, before they let you back into the country (the stupidity is incredible, I know).

I do not know... It is hard to believe for me. Really!!!
So just to be clear; You are saying that father with toddler travel to Europe and nobody in Airport ask anything except passport for the child? How do you know that for sure? May be he has some sort of paper (let assume even fake one)...

It just really scary for me at least...

If father able to do it for mother it will be even easier (not pointing any fingers here - just pure logic)

[Storm]

I do not know... It is hard to believe for me. Really!!!
So just to be clear; You are saying that father with toddler travel to Europe and nobody in Airport ask anything except passport for the child? How do you know that for sure? May be he has some sort of paper (let assume even fake one)...

It just really scary for me at least...

and for me

[dinkyface]

You are saying that father with toddler travel to Europe and nobody in Airport ask anything except passport for the child? How do you know that for sure?

Because that father was ME!!! I always had court order and consent letter with me. Out of 4 international flights (daughter aged 2-4), only ONCE was I asked, and that was on return of 1st trip. My daughter was happy/excited/huggy each time so that probably helped.