Advice/Info on Shared Custody

[audible]

Hi all

I was hoping you can provide me with some advice or some confidence

Next week I have a four-way meeting with my lawyer and my “ex” and her lawyer to discuss visitation of our 3 year old, turns 4 in December

I do not have much confidence in the “system” and feel like I am going to be fighting a lost cause. Here’s the jist of the situation

My ex and I separated in January 2009. We had a final order written up and approved in June 2009

To make a long story short and some key points about this order are as follows

Currently “on paper”, by the order I am granted visitation
Every Wednesday 4:00-5:45
<OEvery second week from Thursday 4:00 to Saturday 1:00
Every other second week from above, from Saturday 10:00am – 5:00pm

And little things in there about birthday’s and holidays etc

I want to get shared custody now. There is no provision in the order to change it, but I guess when I was signing off on it, I just thought it would be assumed this would happen over time

Here are some points as to why I want this change. I hope there’s enough material change and circumstances to help me out

I love my daughter and she loves me. We have great father/daughter times together. She ALWAYS wants to come to my place when I pick her up at daycare and says she wishes she could on days when I only get her for an hour and 45 mins

I want to be an every day parent and not just a father/dad. I have always wanted this and that will never change

We have obviously outgrown the order. My daughter was 1 at the time and will be 4 soon. The order clearly shows to anyone’s naked eye, that it was written up for a “young” child. She was on maternity leave/stress leave at this time, and could not see any advantage to our daughters best interest to spend 50% of the time with me during this time

The order was written when my ex worked “shift work”, thus the Thursday-Saturday “overnight” visits. She no longer works overnights/shift work

The schedule has changed overtime, we both varied it and the visitation on our own many times over the 2+ years

For a whole year + I drove my daughter to and from daycare everyday, so I could see her everyday and help my ex out. It was not in the order, but became that way until she no longer needed my services once she got a live-in boyfriend with a car

For over a year + I would get my daughter on Wednesday nights during the “Thursday” week schedule, while my ex worked. Once she stopped working the shift night days, she took the Wednesday nights away after a few months of continuing with the Wednesday night over nighters

I used to get my daughter every other Friday at daycare for over night visits instead of the 10am pickup on Saturdays. And keep until 5:00. I did this for almost the whole 2 years. She has recently taken the over night away from me

I picked her up at days care and kept her while she has been sick on various occasions, for a week’s time, so she could work and I would stay home from work. Obviously she has the primary residence

Brought her to and from dr. appointments

Extra days/nights here, extra days/nights there

I could do anything and everything with my daughter, but all has changed since her new live in boyfriend

CS is not an issue, I have never been late or in arrears

I still live with my mother because of the debt I have since the breakup, but my daughter and her have a great relationship. I plan to move out next year

I know I am confident my visitation will change to every second weekend and a day in the middle, or something like that. But I want more, I need more

I do not feel so confident in getting a 50/50 shared. My lawyer tends to think and has said that judges are old school and they don’t’ care what I want and will do what think is best for the children, like being stable with the mother. Well why is it that my daughter not being with me 50% of the time not what’s best for her?

What are my chances of 50/50?

My “ex” will probably agree to the every second weekend thing etc, but will probably snap once I say I want 50%. And why? Why is that such a bad thing

I leave it at that and thank. I can answer any questions you need

But please tell me not to worry and that I will probably have the right and the means to be with my daughter 50% of the time

Thanks all<O</O

[billm]

I'm just going to say that 50/50 is the only way to go. Don't give up.

I don't have any experience with the courts. I have 50/50. My youngest was 4 when we split up. We didn't fight about the 50/50, we both wanted it.

Also, don't give in to paying full CS in exchange for 50/50 - you have a right to raise your daughter equally, and to pay CS according to that.

I would suggest you propose a new schedule that takes you where you are to 50/50 over time, but a clear and specific schedule.

Don't listen to your lawyer, and try to minimize using them to fight your ex - work with your ex, make it clear that you are determined to raise your daughter equally and that is best for your daughter. Hopefully she will agree over time.

The sad thing about your post, and others from men here, is that you are trying hard to convince that it reasonable to raise you own daughter and that you love and care for her.

No one should have to do that.

[CycleDad]

My advice don't let the ex bully you regarding changes to access. Keep records and proof of changes in the status quo. emails, voice mail, etc.
Also Kids growing older, starting fulltime school etc., can be a change in circumstance.

[shellshocked22]

You raise many good points for your cause. Make sure, to the extent that you can, to DOCUMENT and prove everything (ie. when you were driving her to daycare maybe have one of the staff there write a quick letter confirming it, that type of thing...). Be very well organized to prove your case.

Depending upon how money hungry your ex is (aren't they all though ?) she will likely fight the 50/50 since it would reduce the amount of your CS (ie. "offsets' would kick in). A strategy I've heard of , IF you suspect that's the sticking point, is to go for 50/50 but still pay full CS "for now". Then, once you get the new "status quo" go back LATER for it. Ask your lawyer as to how to structure it. Your already paying full CS now, so main priority is getting access; work on offset later.

Of course, ideally you want 50/50 and CS offset but again, if money is the stumbling block (which it usually is), this strategy might work. That way, she gets more time to screw around with her new bf and gets all your money.

Good luck my friend

[dadforlife]

She seem to have agreed to vary the schedule in the past so come up with a schedule that would be fair to both and best for your child. Judges want to see attempts at cooperation.

Make sure you point out how much of a bond you have created with your child by pointing out what you mentioned in you initial post. Good Judges want to see solid involvement in fathers relationships with their children.

Make sure you bring up the fact that she accepted status quo as far as picking up your child and visiting arrangements for the last year plus. Demand justification as to why she is just now starting to pull back your time with your child after so long.

Base your request on the well being of your child not the money aspect. Hopefully you have kept a log of every visites and daycare drop offs and pick ups and any times including phone calls ect... you spent with your child.

If you have the support and finances, don't settle for anything less than 50/50. Cs will be base on the difference between your wage and hers.

Wear a cup cause the system may very well kick you in the nuts. If it does, swallow your balls back and keep going.

Good luck

[staysingle]

" The answer to 99 out of every 100 questions is........MONEY!"

At this point and the time leading up to this point, she has had NO...ZERO incentive to alter the current regime!. Currently, she gets full CS and all the tax credits etc plus you are a motivated and involved parent so she has plenty of parenting respite with the status quo.

I agree with your lawyer that having the courts support 50/50 is a long shot and a long battle. It's not impossible though.

Family courts and the carnival like cast of characters is structurally broken from a parents position. It works perfectly well for lawyers and judges.. Going to court expecting justice or fairness or parental rights will leave you broke and disenfranchised.

Collect all your records of your involvement up till this time in your daughters life and I mean everything. Organize it uber well and looking forward.

If you can swing it, sometime in the future offer her 5-10-15 or 20 thousand dollars in exchange for a 50/50 shred parenting regime.

Try and form a creative and/or unorthodox solution. Whatever you decide do not give up and support legislative changes for equal shred parenting changes to the national divorce act'

Good luck.

[audible]

First off thanks all for the info through this stressful time.

An update to my situation:

I just got back to a four way meeting with my lawyer and hers and herself.

It didn't go so well for me. I know I benefitted from it but not to my needs/wants.

Like i mention I would like to pursue 50/50.

After an hour meeting, they came up with Thursday 4:00 - pick up from daycare, and get to keep my daughter until Monday 7:30am - drop off at daycare. Then Wednesday instead of 4:00-5:45, i can pick her up at daycare at 4:00 and keep her overnight and drop her off at daycare at 7:30.

We'll be keeping all the holidays etc the same.

So now I am up to 5 nights, which is great.

I made it clear that I would like 50/50 and proposed 2/2/3 schedule or something that wse can work with. Her lawyer automatically stated if you're looking for 40%, forget it. He also said I'm wasting my time if I think a judge will agree with me.

The jerk also said, oh so you want more over nights, so you're capable of cutting her nails, cleaning her ears etc. I jumped in and said look I know you represent her and I just met you but don't treat me like a guy who can't handle being a parent. God I hate feeling smaller then mini-me. But that's another story.

So anyway, after that, we went to separate rooms to discuss with our lawyers silently. My lawyer suggested I take this deal right away. It's great I get more time. Nothing about me and my wants or needs. He still maintains, like her lawyer, that I will lose in the courts. They wont give a rats ass about my needs/wants.

"It's what's best for the child"!! That is such an opinionated phrase. Why is the father being with her daughter, loving her and help raising her, "what's best for her"?

They also suggested family law mediation and to get out of the lawyer's advice, because their job is essentially done. Sure I am will to do this. We can "let it all out". But I just know the sticking point is that 6th and/or 7th day. They will never agree. So I feel I have to have a judge tell me that. Spend thousands of dollars to get only to where I am now, with what is being offered?!?! Is that fair, is that right?

Am I wasting my time?

Anyone have advice of what I should pursue and howÉ Or should I just accept the extra time, which I knew I would get, but still doesnt fall into being a capable and willing parentéfather to the max.

Oh and one more thing. I am a good dude. No criminal record. No drugs. Never arrested. And just the most love for a little girl that seems people will not let me provide to her.

[Exquizique]

It does sound like you have a strong case for 50/50. I don't know much about the "legal history" leading up to this point, but are you in a position to afford to get a 2nd and/or 3rd consultation with a couple of other lawyers to see what their legal opinion on this is?

[audible]

It does sound like you have a strong case for 50/50. I don't know much about the "legal history" leading up to this point, but are you in a position to afford to get a 2nd and/or 3rd consultation with a couple of other lawyers to see what their legal opinion on this is?

I actually don't care how much it costs to get what I deserve. I am far from rich, a lot in debt to be honest. But what's most important to me is the right to raise my daughter 50% of the time!!

[dinkyface]

The schedule you described is a 43/57 schedule (3/7 overnights).
- This is enough to justify off-set CS.
- At most you would get one more school-night overnight.

So, how much time/money are you prepared to spend to get that one more night (though I completely understand the frustration re 50-50)

Re ears/nails - that made me laugh. From my initial access visits at 5mo old, it seemed I was the only one taking care of these. Daughter has some eczema, and recurring itchy pimples that tended to infect - so important to keep nails short/clean and ear creases well cleaned/moisturized to prevent cracks. And it's such sweet private time together doing these things.

[CycleDad]

My advice is get another lawyer. What is best for the Kids is that should have maximum time with both parents assuming they good parents. It's part of family law. Then the other side say "stability". BS. My STBX has more school days than I do but my kids do better in school after an overnight or weekend with me than with her. That is the stability agument down the tubes. If the pull the stability card because of school etc. Your lawyer should have been asking for More time in the summer, holidays etc to maxium time with both parents (50/50 or as close to it)

Don't let yourself be railroaded my your own lawyer like I was early on. One on the many descisions I have regretted.

CD

[audible]

The schedule you described is a 43/57 schedule (3/7 overnights).
- This is enough to justify off-set CS.
- At most you would get one more school-night overnight.

So, how much time/money are you prepared to spend to get that one more night (though I completely understand the frustration re 50-50)

Re ears/nails - that made me laugh. From my initial access visits at 5mo old, it seemed I was the only one taking care of these. Daughter has some eczema, and recurring itchy pimples that tended to infect - so important to keep nails short/clean and ear creases well cleaned/moisturized to prevent cracks. And it's such sweet private time together doing these things.

LOL, I know the quality time cleaning her ears and cutting her nails and in due time pimples, is priceless.

I think your calculations might be off.

Thursday 4:00pm - Monday 7:30am = 4 nights

Then only the one Wednesday overnight.

In turn I look at it 5/14.

2/2/3 would be great and is what I am shooting for (with no help). But an agreed schedule to at least reach 40% would be adequate.

[audible]

My advice is get another lawyer. What is best for the Kids is that should have maximum time with both parents assuming they good parents. It's part of family law. Then the other side say "stability". BS. My STBX has more school days than I do but my kids do better in school after an overnight or weekend with me than with her. That is the stability agument down the tubes. If the pull the stability card because of school etc. Your lawyer should have been asking for More time in the summer, holidays etc to maxium time with both parents (50/50 or as close to it)

Don't let yourself be railroaded my your own lawyer like I was early on. One on the many descisions I have regretted.

CD

I hear ya. My ex has a grade 8 education, I am sure I will be counted on when the real school starts. I wish my lawyer would fight for more time. I have made it perfectly clear as to what I want, but he thinks this "deal" is great.

Will a judge agree with yours, mine and everyones thoughts, that what is best for a child is to maximize time spent with both parents, or just accept what is offered?

Anyone know a good lawyer in Ottawa? I like this guy, but he just seems to be missing the most important part, which is exactly what you said. Maximize time with both parents. My daughter has adapted very well from being 1 to now. Loves coming here and being with me and does in fact "wish I could go to your house", every time I pick her up at daycare.

[CycleDad]

Perhaps small changes are better? for example I know many judges would entertain changing an evening into an overnight especially if it reduces conflict caaouse by drop off the the other parent...

[dinkyface]

Ah, so Weds overnight is not every week, but every second week.