Toys & Police

[AlexisAndrew]

I have a question concerning toys and the exact ownership of them

My Ex has ' shared' custody of my son and I would like something clarified please.
If I buy my son a toy and let him take it back with him to his mother and she then throws it away, or refuses to give it back or even sells it. Are any laws being broken please?
My thinking is that they are, as the item(s) was/were NOT given to her.

Also, if she took an item that I have stored in a hotel for the sole use of my son when I am with him, without my permission, then can I consider this to be theft?


Finally, can a judge order you not to call the police? I have called them on a number of occasions and they tell me that a Judge CANNOT make such an order, but when I mentioned this to the judge he said they were wrong. The police explained that they could not enforce an order, but when it came to anything else, then of course I could.
If the judge is indeed wrong, whom can I go to to make a formal complaint against this judge?

Thanks

[standing on the sidelines]

here is an idea, do not let your son remove any toys from your place. Tell him those are toys that are for him to play with when he is at your place.

If she removed the toy then it is theft but why waste the courts time over something so trivial.

As for the last part of your post I am not sure of that but you come off as a person who calls the police for every little thing and eventually it will show that you cannot co-parent

[AlexisAndrew]

Ok, anyone else please?

[Gary M]

Ok, anyone else please?

Asshat.

The answer given by SOTS above is correct. Suck it up and move on.

Cheers!

Gary

[AlexisAndrew]

What did you call me?

[Mess]

he called you an asshat.

[NBDad]

If I buy my son a toy and let him take it back with him to his mother and she then throws it away, or refuses to give it back or even sells it. Are any laws being broken please?

Nope. Ownership of the toy is the child's. 50-50 shared custody would mean the mother is free to do with the toy when brought to her home as she wishes. The child should be able to freely move their belongings between homes without fear of losing the items or having them taken away, but you can't fix stupid so reality can be far different. In my case, I don't let the kids take stuff to their mother's, as she has a history of up and moving and leaving the entire contents of her home behind. Thus they lose their toys.

If it's a concern, don't let him take things he wants to keep to his mother's. Document the occurrence and use it to show she can't co parent, and that's why YOU should be primary.

Also, if she took an item that I have stored in a hotel for the sole use of my son when I am with him, without my permission, then can I consider this to be theft?

Yes. But 1. The police are going to consider this a civil matter, it's a waste of your time to pursue it. Unless it's something worth a couple of grand.

and 2. Why in the HELL are you letting your ex anywhere NEAR where you are staying. I hope to hell you have a recorder going, or a neutral third party present. Otherwise, enjoy your TRO and False DV charges.

Now if she waltzed into the hotel under false pretenses and took someone that was valuable, you should be complaining to the hotel management and making THEM help you file a theft report.

Finally, can a judge order you not to call the police? I have called them on a number of occasions and they tell me that a Judge CANNOT make such an order, but when I mentioned this to the judge he said they were wrong. The police explained that they could not enforce an order, but when it came to anything else, then of course I could.

Why would you be ordered NOT to call the police? Are there complaints of you doing so excessively? The police can only enforce an order in very very specific circumstances, and it requires specific wording outlining exactly what their role is. It's known as a "police enforcement clause" and they are very very rare. Stop wasting your time (and the police's time) over frivolous matters. Doing so is only going to earn you a reputation of being unreasonable, and will lose you custody.

If the judge is indeed wrong, whom can I go to to make a formal complaint against this judge?

Don't. That would be a supremely stupid move. The fact that is being ordered by the judge should tell you something. The judge believes you are calling the police excessively and for frivolous matters. It makes you look bad and it's going to earn you the ire of the police, the judge, and the court. The police may not be able to enforce it, but you had better believe the judge will find you in contempt if you are calling the cops for items that are due to be handled in the court case anyway.

Focus on stuff that is actually important.

[NBDad]

/popcorn

This should be good

[AlexisAndrew]

Finally, a proper answer...see it is easy

Thank you for the detailed response, it is most appreciated.....there are clothes etc that need to be picked up from the hotel, plus I have to store clothes and toys there,and on the last occasion, my ex simply took some item's which I had in storage. I will discuss this with the hotel management....my ex has already caused trouble in the hotel in the past.

I see your point about the police, however, the police themselves instructed me to call them at the commencement of each of my visit and told me to document it all and the judge will deal with it...well the judge refused to, rather blaming me.


The judge has ordered she is to drop off at the hotel and to pick up the items after the visit, but this is not when I am present...this is a new arrangement and within the 2nd visit, she stole some items and I want her charged for theft...I realise it may be a petty crime, however she has already abducted him and has been let off, and I have reached my limit as to how many times she can break the law and get away with it, but I will certainly keep it in perspective after what you have said.

As for how to complain about a judge...Again I fully understand what you are saying, however, whenever I have asked anyone in the past they say the same thing..well, if I feel a judge is breaking the law, then I would like to know how to complain to the powers that be. After all a judge is still answerable to someone,who is that? The Chief Justice? The Provincial Minister of Justice? The Supreme court of Canada? Who? Surely someone must know?

I am confused over on thing you said though.....

popcorn?

How does that fit into things

Once again, thanks for your response.

[Nadia]

I concur with NB, the toys belong to the child/children. They should be able to bring them back and forth between the two homes. If the other parent is being stupid and not returning them, then stop sending them over with the child. Sad for the kid, but what else can you do?

Stop calling the police. It only serves to escalate a high conflict situation. I understand your frustration and anger at the ex. Find another outlet to blow off steam. If you continue down the path of anger and unncecessary police involvement, there is nothing but loss.

My ex called the police 21 times in the first year after we separated. It didn't get him anywhere. To me it just demonstrated how pissed off he was at the situation and the fact that he "thought I needed to be punished." He still hasn't moved on. But the local police force have him red flagged and we haven't had the police involved for over 12 months now.

There might be situations where police involvement is unavoidable, just be careful how you use this service.

[hadenough]

You are pissing in the wind. As above: stop calling the cops and gooood luck complaining about a judge. You better have a bigger complaint than the one you have. You will get Nowhere, and Fast. You'd have an easier time getting a hold of the Pope or Obama, than you would of successfully filing a complaint about a judge. You and your ex need mediation or a parenting co-ordinator. As for toys: don't send your child home with anything if you are expecting to get it back.

[danzuchy]

You know that Rolling Stone song "when you play with me you play with fire".

Well disobeying a Judge is like playing with fire. Sure you can call the police. There is a crazy cat lady who calls them 2x a day on my street. They come out and nothing happens.

BUT if a Judge "suggest" a party in this proceeding "cease" calling the cops YOU stop calling the cops unless it's a 100% true emergency. The Judge can and will take away custody of you make frivlous calls to the cops. Judges hate police involvement in frivolous things.

You consider toys a huge issue, maybe a cop said t was BUT the person who makes the orders said stop calling. I would stop calling.

[danzuchy]

I concur with NB, the toys belong to the child/children. They should be able to bring them back and forth between the two homes. If the other parent is being stupid and not returning them, then stop sending them over with the child. Sad for the kid, but what else can you do?

Stop calling the police. It only serves to escalate a high conflict situation. I understand your frustration and anger at the ex. Find another outlet to blow off steam. If you continue down the path of anger and unncecessary police involvement, there is nothing but loss.

My ex called the police 21 times in the first year after we separated. It didn't get him anywhere. To me it just demonstrated how pissed off he was at the situation and the fact that he "thought I needed to be punished." He still hasn't moved on. But the local police force have him red flagged and we haven't had the police involved for over 12 months now.

There might be situations where police involvement is unavoidable, just be careful how you use this service.

Of course it depends on WHAT you call the police for. If you call them because you "think" your ex drove by when he really was in Montreal, then you'll end up in trouble.
If you call because an ex is outside your door with an axe, well no one will blame you.

The bottom line is this, and I will put it bluntly, if there is no real danger then calling the cops is like putting your finger in a blender. It will end up in a cluster F$%^ . No organization in Ontario is more poorly suited in handling domestics than cops. That's why 70% of them are divorced. They are social retards for the most part.

[Tayken]

I have a question concerning toys and the exact ownership of them

My Ex has ' shared' custody of my son and I would like something clarified please.
If I buy my son a toy and let him take it back with him to his mother and she then throws it away, or refuses to give it back or even sells it. Are any laws being broken please?
My thinking is that they are, as the item(s) was/were NOT given to her.

Also, if she took an item that I have stored in a hotel for the sole use of my son when I am with him, without my permission, then can I consider this to be theft?


Finally, can a judge order you not to call the police? I have called them on a number of occasions and they tell me that a Judge CANNOT make such an order, but when I mentioned this to the judge he said they were wrong. The police explained that they could not enforce an order, but when it came to anything else, then of course I could.
If the judge is indeed wrong, whom can I go to to make a formal complaint against this judge?

Thanks

The pattern of behaviour you are engaging is very similar to the patterns of Hostile Agressive Parenting. I highly recommend you stop this conduct and manage yourself accordingly.

Trying to use the police to threaten and control someone is very common in family law. It is not creative... It is demonstrative of a high-conflict pattern of behaviour that Judges are very familiar with.

Here is a paper for you to read about the pattern of behaviour you are describing that you are possibly engaged in:

http://www.fact.on.ca/Info/pas/hap2004.pdf

Good Luck!
Tayken

PS: Often times, therapy is a better choice than the police for your frustrations.

[Skndlz2904]

I concur, govern yourself accordingly...