Access to a 14 year old despite child's wishes

[andagain]

Good Morning all;

I have a quick question regarding forcing a 14.5 year old to see other parent.

Our son decided to live with me fulltime about 2 years ago. My ex. was being very difficult towards my son causing this decision (saying negative things about me and my new wife in front of my son, not letting him attend any activities with my family when it was her "time". Not willing to negotiate any switches so the boy could attend things, making events where we attended at the same time EXTREMELY uncomfortable for the child etc.).

I tried to work with my ex by having meetings with her when my son would come to me with issues so we could try and correct them and give him support to voice concerns (he is very timid). My ex admitted to behaving badly and agreed to change and even at one point said she would seek therapy (never happened). Nothing changed and over the last 4 years I had to have several "meetings" with her and the child. Ultimately, the child decided to move in with me. This happened on three occasions and I worked with him to have him give her another chance. He even wrote her a letter explaining what she was doing to make him upset (didn't work, she kept resorting back to old ways). Finally, the last time he came to me upset and said he wanted to live with me, I thought he had given her enough chances. He has now lived with me fulltime for 2 years. We have let him see her/call her at his discretion, but on some occasions after he comes back from being with her he doesn't want to see/talk to her for awhile because she's done/said something to make him upset again (same things as what made him leave) It doesn't seem she is capable of change.

So... Now she is asking through her lawyer to set an access schedule for the child to spend time with her. Can this be granted? We don't have a signed agreement yet. Our lawyer said we should consider it as if he doesn't want to go, she could call the police, they could come and they "may" take him back to her or "may" not. He hasn't slept at her place for 2 years and doesn't want to. He has told her to her face that he is happy the way things are now and doesn't want to change it. Would a court make him go back?? He's happy now and thriving. He doesn't have stress or depression etc. Should we agree to this and take the chance of the police getting involved.. That would absolutely stress him out and upset him if it happened.. The thought of this is ripping my heart out.

Any advice or experience you have would be greatly appreciated..

[Mess]

What province do you live in?

Your lawyer was obligated to warn you of a worst case scenario but many posters on this board have shared experiences where the police absolutely refused to get involved with a teenager refusing to live with a parent.

A court order for custody does not automatically include police enforcement, this can be sought but it is rare. It would not be given for a teenager, it would be given for a younger child if the parents were playing games with access.

If it were me, first of all the chld is now living with me and I am not about kick them out. I would not be concerned with possible police involvement. If the mother called the police at some point, that is the time to deal with it.

Please keep in mind that previous to this situation, you did not have "zero" access. The child has every right to be in your home. The police cannot determine, on a given day, where the child is "supposed" to be.

If the mother did call the police, it is possible they might come to the door and ask to speak with the child. You should prepare the child for this ahead of time, treat it as an absolutely non-stressful event, the police would be checking in to see that the child is fine and staying of their own choice. This is all they need to see.

Yes, it would be a pain, but you can't start living in fear over a possibility that they would come just to check on something the police even consider a minor formality.

I would offer to the mother that she could visit with the child for shorter periods, like a Saturday afternoon, but that overnight stays would be strictly left up to the child.

If I were you I would seek a motion very quickly to have the custody formalized.

[andagain]

Thank you for your reply.

Firstly, I live in Ontario..

So, my lawyer has suggested 3 things;

1) Put an access schedule giving her access every other weekend and one night a week

2) Put in that the child attend councelling with the Mother

3) Get the child his own lawyer.

The child does not want any of the above. He is happy where he is and has told her so to her face. She brought this on herself by destroying her relationship with him due to her inability to behave properly (his words are he gave her enough chances and obviously she can't change).

I just don't think its fair to put him through this. Up to moving in with me, he was living a life of guilt and stress brought on by her. He's so much happier and relaxed here. Originally she agreed to the clause "at the child's discretion", but hadn't signed the agreement yet. Obviously, she didn't like what was going on as the child didn't want to see her that often, or wouldn't see her because of her ongoing behaviour so she changed to a lawyer who would agree to ask for access rights.

What do I do here?? Do I force the child into one of the options above or do we stick to our guns and leave in the clause "at the child's discretion" and take our chances in court. Our lawyer seems to be pushing us to give her access.. I think he just wants to close the file and be done with it..

Suggestions??

Thanks again...

[lorlaman]

Hey Andagain

I have a very similar situation. I have two daughters aged 12 and 15 who do not want to see their mother. She was arrested twice last year for assault on me and one other assault on my 15 year old where the police did nothing after her 5 year dependency on prescription speed. She got off the drugs, but did not get treatment. Since the second arrest in Oct/2010, she has done very little to see the kids and rarely contacts them although she had free and liberal access whenever she wanted it. Then, at the case conference in March, 2011, she was given scheduled access of Mon and Wed each week as well as Friday to Sunday bi-weekly.

Things seemed OK for awhile (6 weeks or so) when the kids got into a fight with her and they tried to jump out of the car as it was moving. Since then, they want nothing to do with her, don't answer her texts or anything. The kids all along asked that she get counseling with them to develop the relationship; she flatly refused. She brought a motion of contempt against me accusing me of Parental Alienation Syndrome. At court for the contempt motion in mid June, she suddenly changed her mind and chose to accept counseling with the kids probably because the judge would have slapped her if she didn't. Since then, she has yet to select a counselor covered by my employer. The kids became more and more distant to her and saw the OCL who verified that I was not coaching them.

To put icing on the cake, my 12 year old and I were subpoenaed to appear on her assault charge. My 15 year old sat in the court room and was asked to leave by the judge because my ex's lawyer was concerned about the trauma she will endure although she had much she wanted to say. Her lawyer wanted to talk about the whole relationship and the judge asked her to leave. Then they put my 12 year old on the stand and tore her apart for 3 hours; 5 minutes talking about the assault she witnessed, and the balance was an interrogation about me.

Now the kids are extremely angry at her and want nothing to do with her. (period after her) In short, she has scheduled access. The kids want no part of it or her and there is SFA she can do about it. If I go to court on this issue, I will ask the judge to issue an order to the kids to love their mother and go see her which of course can't be done.. This is her relationship she has destroyed with her kids and only she can fix it. No-one can force the kids to see her; I can't get them to clean their rooms let alone love or care about their mother who they will not refer to as Mom and despite my encouragement.

I live in Ontario and would recommend that you document everything and not worry about the access issue. My ex's lawyer has a hard on for me and would do anything to get at me, yet the kids are still here, no change, no police, no access.