Do I have the right...

[Chriss]

as a recently separated parent that has equal access to both my children to be present when children's aid comes to talk to my daughters.
Childrens aid has a rule that they must come see the children within 7 days of a phone call to them.
My spouse had told CAS last week that it was ok to see them this wednesday at 3:00pm. However it will not be at the kids primary home it will be at the mother n laws, also my child has swimming lessons at 3:45pm and looks forward to them all week.
CAS told me she has to miss her swimming lessons.

I find that wrong. I thought they did what was best for the child. My children are well taken care of and have never been in harms way. What right do I have?
thanks

[dadtotheend]

CAS told you that?

That sounds a little draconian.

Tell them to meet the kids before or after.

[Chriss]

I did she said that she is booked up completely and doesn't have anytime.
I said if you meet at our place instead of the mother n laws then that will save you a half hour of driving. She said she would need more than 45mins with the kids.
I'm thinking why? One child is 3 and the other is 1 and 1/4.

[NBDad]

Your children are far too young for her to "meet with them". They are not old enough to properly articulate answers to any questions.

Is CAS investigating a complaint on YOUR household? Or your ex's?

You DO NOT have to cooperate with them (I have had some BAD experiences with incompentant workers, and as a result my viewpoint is biased. I would not even let them in the door, nor would I allow CAS to speak to the children without either myself or my attorney present)

As a side note, CAS screwed up with my kids so badly that I'm a immediate red flag in their system...in that they won't come anywhere near me.

I am about as "hands off, run the hell the other way" as it's possible to get.

My opinion, and take this for what it's worth:

1. DO NOT allow this person to interview your children without YOU or YOUR ATTORNEY present. If there are allegations of abuse, the cops would have already been at your door. If this is an active investigation on your EX"s household...then see #2.

2. The CAS worker can work in YOUR schedule. If it is YOUR TIME with the children and YOUR HOUSEHOLD is not the one that's being investigated, then too bad, so sad, love NBDad. The worker can either make the time, or pass the file to someone who is able to coordinate within your schedule. Unless their is a court ordered involvement.

3. DO NOT agree to a "voluntary supervision" of any kind. The choice you give her is a court ordered involvement, or close the file. PERIOD. If she has enough evidence to be involved by court order, you're screwed anyway.

CAS is overworked, underpaid and has almost NO external checks and balances. What they are able to do, and what they can convince YOU they are able to do, are very very different things.

On the other hand, if this is an active investigation into YOUR EX'S household...dude...let it ride....things like that are worth their weight in gold.

CAS would NOT involve themselves in the household if there wasn't cause for concern, they'd close the file instead. You can use that to your advantage. Regardless of whether the CAS worker testifies on your ex's behalf or not, her very presence and involvement is proof enough that your household is "more stable" than your ex's".

Believe me CAS being actively involved with my ex was used in court a LOT when I was still fighting for custody.

[Chriss]

Your children are far too young for her to "meet with them". They are not old enough to properly articulate answers to any questions.

Is CAS investigating a complaint on YOUR household? Or your ex's?

You DO NOT have to cooperate with them (I have had some BAD experiences with incompentant workers, and as a result my viewpoint is biased. I would not even let them in the door, nor would I allow CAS to speak to the children without either myself or my attorney present)

As a side note, CAS screwed up with my kids so badly that I'm a immediate red flag in their system...in that they won't come anywhere near me.

I am about as "hands off, run the hell the other way" as it's possible to get.

My opinion, and take this for what it's worth:

1. DO NOT allow this person to interview your children without YOU or YOUR ATTORNEY present. If there are allegations of abuse, the cops would have already been at your door. If this is an active investigation on your EX"s household...then see #2.

2. The CAS worker can work in YOUR schedule. If it is YOUR TIME with the children and YOUR HOUSEHOLD is not the one that's being investigated, then too bad, so sad, love NBDad. The worker can either make the time, or pass the file to someone who is able to coordinate within your schedule. Unless their is a court ordered involvement.

3. DO NOT agree to a "voluntary supervision" of any kind. The choice you give her is a court ordered involvement, or close the file. PERIOD. If she has enough evidence to be involved by court order, you're screwed anyway.

CAS is overworked, underpaid and has almost NO external checks and balances. What they are able to do, and what they can convince YOU they are able to do, are very very different things.

On the other hand, if this is an active investigation into YOUR EX'S household...dude...let it ride....things like that are worth their weight in gold.

CAS would NOT involve themselves in the household if there wasn't cause for concern, they'd close the file instead. You can use that to your advantage. Regardless of whether the CAS worker testifies on your ex's behalf or not, her very presence and involvement is proof enough that your household is "more stable" than your ex's".

Believe me CAS being actively involved with my ex was used in court a LOT when I was still fighting for custody.

Thanks for the reply. CAS strictly wants to see the kids. Is the 7 day rule by them valid? I will just call her up and say sorry tomorrow is not good for us you're going to have to find a different time. Or would she get the police involved if I said that?

[NBDad]

Are they investigating the household of YOU or YOUR EX?

Here's the thing, the CAS worker can rant and rave all they want, in order to involve the police, they need grounds for a court order to remove the children from the home.

They can "apprehend them" if they have proof, and they are required to schedule an emergency hearing with 7? days of doing so to provide proof on WHY they should be allowed to keep the kids.

They are mandated to place the children with family if possible, so if they aren't investigating YOUR HOUSEHOLD, then make damn sure the worker knows who you are, and what your contact info is, as well as any other immediate family you have in the area that could take the kids in a pinch.

In order to be involved with the household beyond the initial visit (yours or your ex's) they need one of two things....a VOLUNTARY AGREEMENT from the person whose household they are looking into OR a supervision order from the court (which they need PROOF in order to get).

Don't agree to their involvement, don't sign anything, and I would essentially tell the worker to pound sand or make alternate arrangements with your ex. (I'm assuming they are looking into your Ex and not to you).

If the swimming lesson thing is YOUR time, then carry on as normal and let your ex reschedule with the worker...why are you even dealing with her at all, your ex knows when your time is to take the kid swimming, and she deliberately scheduled a conflict?

[Chriss]

Are they investigating the household of YOU or YOUR EX?

Here's the thing, the CAS worker can rant and rave all they want, in order to involve the police, they need grounds for a court order to remove the children from the home.

They can "apprehend them" if they have proof, and they are required to schedule an emergency hearing with 7? days of doing so to provide proof on WHY they should be allowed to keep the kids.

They are mandated to place the children with family if possible, so if they aren't investigating YOUR HOUSEHOLD, then make damn sure the worker knows who you are, and what your contact info is, as well as any other immediate family you have in the area that could take the kids in a pinch.

In order to be involved with the household beyond the initial visit (yours or your ex's) they need one of two things....a VOLUNTARY AGREEMENT from the person whose household they are looking into OR a supervision order from the court (which they need PROOF in order to get).

Don't agree to their involvement, don't sign anything, and I would essentially tell the worker to pound sand or make alternate arrangements with your ex. (I'm assuming they are looking into your Ex and not to you).

If the swimming lesson thing is YOUR time, then carry on as normal and let your ex reschedule with the worker...why are you even dealing with her at all, your ex knows when your time is to take the kid swimming, and she deliberately scheduled a conflict?

They are coming to the main house where I reside now. It is still my ex's house as well as mine but she refuses to reside here if I'm here. They were going to go to my ex-spouses mothers' house but I told them to come here because it was closer and my daughter might still be able to attend swimming lessons if they were quick enough.

Little back story:
My ex-spouse started calling CAS in September. It's always over silly things. I have never physically done anything to the kids or her. I barely yell. I do raise my voice or am the opposite very calm(which actually ticks my ex-spouse off even more). One day I was so frustrated I slammed a bowl on the floor. That is the first time I've ever done something like that. It was because she lets the kids tell her what to do as opposed to her telling the kids what to do. Anyways cops came I had to leave.
Second time was because I took smarties from my child at 7:30am and told my daughter she could not eat smarties at 7:30am for breakfast. Cops told her to leave with the kids to her mother n laws.
Third time was just recently and was the last straw for her. I started taking electronics out from the house to get rid of distractions so we could talk. That's when her mother n law called the cops. Cops came told my ex-spouse to leave with the kids over to her mother n laws. Reason why I took stuff out of the house is I found out she was approved for subsidy and going to government subsidized housing and she wanted to have sole custody of both kids.

So now I was just served papers today that says I have to appear in court April 1,2011. There are a whole bunch of allegations that have no facts to back them up. 1/2 of them aren't true or are over exaggerated.

We have managed to work out time with the kids so far. They are almost oblivious to what is happening which is the best thing for them. However my 3 year old is starting to wonder.
My ex-spouse is at her mother n laws and I'm at the main house. My ex-spouse is more than welcome to come here stay here whatever but she refuses.
Now CAS was informed about this last incident last Thursday now it is their goal to come to see the kids before 7 days is up.

I do not want my children to live with their mother for more than they really have to. My eldest daughter has fallen into bad habits and the bad habits need to stop now. She is 3 and it is a perfect time to turn around these bad habits.

[Deputy Daddy]

When my ex and I split we planned to do it "properly" ourselves and avoid the lawyer pit by both being reasonable.

About 5 days after our separation date, she went to the police and took out an emergency protection order to keep me away from her and the kids for their "safety". Same situation as you... we argued but never anything physical either way to each other, or the kids. This kind of thing really is step number 1 for those who want the upper hand in a divorce and it's up to us to stop it.

In my case, the kids were 3 and 6 and had been in daycare with dozens of daycare workers since babies. I was the one to pick up/drop off so there was NO WAY her claims (abuse, kids terrified of me...) would stand up in court if it ever went beyond "he said/she said".

I hired a lawyer the next day and got the ball rolling to get them back, asking for full custody and my costs for her false accusations.

About 3 weeks later, she (on her lawyer's strong advice) offered for me to have the kids back 50/50 if I'd drop the request for costs.

At the time I hadn't seen or heard from/about the kids for 3 weeks so I agreed to this rather than waiting any longer to see a judge and have her explain herself.

I've regretted it ever since. I now have the kids happily at 50% and my ex and I are friendly enough, but I really wish I made her explain her actions to someone who had the power to "kick her in the ass". I know I would have gotten costs and probably even primary custody. (there were other issues as well)

I agree with the need for CPS and emergency protection orders, but for god's sakes... there HAS to be some mechanism in place to discourage false charges like this!

Good luck with it. My advice is to get a lawyer and be swift and firm in what you want. You want the kids half-time (or full-time if you REALLY think she's a danger to them) and NEVER waiver from that. It is very easy for them to make accusations, but when it comes time to proving it she will cave.

I wanted to type "Make her pay for what she's done", but that sounds vindictive and I don't mean it like that... Ok, make her accountable for what she's done.

Good luck with it and please post updates.

[Chriss]

When my ex and I split we planned to do it "properly" ourselves and avoid the lawyer pit by both being reasonable.

About 5 days after our separation date, she went to the police and took out an emergency protection order to keep me away from her and the kids for their "safety". Same situation as you... we argued but never anything physical either way to each other, or the kids. This kind of thing really is step number 1 for those who want the upper hand in a divorce and it's up to us to stop it.

In my case, the kids were 3 and 6 and had been in daycare with dozens of daycare workers since babies. I was the one to pick up/drop off so there was NO WAY her claims (abuse, kids terrified of me...) would stand up in court if it ever went beyond "he said/she said".

I hired a lawyer the next day and got the ball rolling to get them back, asking for full custody and my costs for her false accusations.

About 3 weeks later, she (on her lawyer's strong advice) offered for me to have the kids back 50/50 if I'd drop the request for costs.

At the time I hadn't seen or heard from/about the kids for 3 weeks so I agreed to this rather than waiting any longer to see a judge and have her explain herself.

I've regretted it ever since. I now have the kids happily at 50% and my ex and I are friendly enough, but I really wish I made her explain her actions to someone who had the power to "kick her in the ass". I know I would have gotten costs and probably even primary custody. (there were other issues as well)

I agree with the need for CPS and emergency protection orders, but for god's sakes... there HAS to be some mechanism in place to discourage false charges like this!

Good luck with it. My advice is to get a lawyer and be swift and firm in what you want. You want the kids half-time (or full-time if you REALLY think she's a danger to them) and NEVER waiver from that. It is very easy for them to make accusations, but when it comes time to proving it she will cave.

I wanted to type "Make her pay for what she's done", but that sounds vindictive and I don't mean it like that... Ok, make her accountable for what she's done.

Good luck with it and please post updates.

Thanks for the reply. Sounds very similar. Glad to know I'm not alone. This whole ordeal has given me a lot of perspective on things.

I called CAS and told them that I do not want them talking to my daughters without myself or an attorney present. She wanted me to bring the kids to her today since she wasn't comfortable coming over here. She was quite pissed off and told me not to bother bringing my daughter if she could not talk to her alone.
Right now I need to get a lawyer. My ex-spouse is not going to budge she wants sole custody with reasonable access, with a restraining order. I really think the kids needs both of their parents at this point in their life equally. They are use to seeing myself and my ex spouse all the time. So I do not want to interrupt their schedule or their access to us. My ex-spouse is out for blood for some reason and I don't think is putting the kids best interests ahead of hers.
It was funny yesterday, she had both kids and apparently both were sick so she made a doctors appointment for them for 3:20pm. So of course since I'm the father I wanted to make time for their doctors appointment. I showed up at the doctors unannounced just for the kids. The mother n law had one child in her hand the other was in the stroller. I went to say Hi to my little one that was up with grandma and the grandma snapped at me saying she is sleeping and not to touch her. Well that snappy remark woke her up. She then went upstairs I found out later to call the cops. After the drs appointment the cops were there. I was upset to say the least. My exspouse said she thought I was going to take the kids and run.
I have no idea what all this has become but it's getting quite ridiculous. Where the hell am I going to go? My parents live within 5mins of me her parents live within 5 mins our main house is within 5mins. I don't get it. How many times can she cry wolf before they start seeing this is all a joke. Just my rants. Push on tomorrow is another day.

[dinkyface]

"sole custody with reasonable access, with a restraining order"

My understanding of 'reasonable access' is that it is used when there is cooperation between the parents. In high conflict, the access needs to be defined VERY PRECISELY (so that police can enforce, if necessary).

You are at her mercy if you settle on 'reasonable access'.

[Chriss]

My ex-spouse is about to move to an undisclosed location. She does not want me to know where she is living because she says that where she is going the people do not want any conflicts between us. She will be taking the kids on occasion as well. If I want to know where my kids are living can she keep that info from me?

[Chriss]

"sole custody with reasonable access, with a restraining order"

My understanding of 'reasonable access' is that it is used when there is cooperation between the parents. In high conflict, the access needs to be defined VERY PRECISELY (so that police can enforce, if necessary).

You are at her mercy if you settle on 'reasonable access'.

I have a lot to talk to the lawyer about. I really hope a lot of this crap she is saying will be amended by her in mediation. But I have a feeling mediation will not work with us. She does not care about the kids she cares about herself and the pain she puts me in.