Flipping Sole Custody

[MommaBear73]

I have been the primary caregiver of my first 3 boys with my ex their entire lives, I have had sole custody for years. My ex (who is in the military) and I have not lived in the same city for years ever since he abandoned us up north to be with his new wife and I had to sell almost everything we owned to get us back to Ontario where our family is a year later. When I got here he tried to get joint custody regardless of the fact we lived 2 hours apart. The Judge said no, and suggested we work out a divorce agreement on our own, which we did. I currently have sole custody and he sees the boys every other weekend, one week at Xmas, every other Easter, Father's Day every other spring break and 3 consecutive weeks in the summer. I also give him extra time like PA days and gave him and extra 2 weeks this past summer.
My new partner and I have had trouble finding steady employment, I have lost 4 members of my family in the last 1 1/2 years and I have just recently had a baby. We have moved 3 times in 3 years trying to better our family's situation and with this final move we have done it. We have a huge 5 bedroom house so the boys all have their own rooms, the elementary school is a 2 minute walk to the right and the high school is a 5 minute walk to the left. The boys have joined extra curricular activities that weren't available to them before, I am here for them as a stay at home mom, my oldest wants to apply to work and the strip mall that is just down the street, my parents are moving here soon and all the friends and family we left behind to follow the ex and his career we are able to see again as they are all either here or an hour from here.
I had told the ex that I was thinking of another move and he had no problem with it, even suggesting I move to where he is. The kids would have none of it as it takes them farther away from friends and family and they although they love him they do not want to live with him, just to keep things as they are. He tried to block the move here when I refused to move there saying I was 'disrupting' their lives. The Judge allowed the move, so now he is asking for the current custody arrangement to be flipped so that the kids move there and I am the one with access. My kids are freaking, they called him bawling asking him to leave things as they are, that they are happy and doing amazing here (14 year old's grades have all jumped up, 12 year old is excelling in his new arts program and my 9 year old got an award for being a model student) he told them it was none of their business. My ex keeps telling them he's doing this because it's in their 'best interest' but all he is doing is causing them stress, pain and worry. We have a case conference next week. He had a lawyer, but has gotten rid of her.
What I was wondering is having status quo, already having a more then fair divorce agreement in place, his access is still the same (drive is a bit longer, but we meet him partway) and with me being the primary caregiver their entire lives my chances of having this dismissed are pretty good, aren't they? My new spouse and I had our first child together in the beginning of November and all this is stressing me out beyond words. I just want to keep things as they have been for years, but when I try to explain to him that he is the one causing the disruption he gets hateful with me.
Is it possible for him to win and have the kids moved there?
Any help/advice would be appreciated

[dadtotheend]

It's very unlikely that he will be sucessful because of the disruption to the status quo.

The Judge said no, and suggested we work out a divorce agreement on our own, which we did.

The judge didn't "rule" no, he/she advised no I'm guessing.

I also give him extra time like PA days and gave him and extra 2 weeks this past summer.

That sounds a little superior. If you have to deal with this in court, try not to say that you gave it to him, rather that you agreed to the children's additional access to their father.

What I was wondering is having status quo, already having a more then fair divorce agreement in place

Fair to you, apparently Dad doesn't agree. Leave the judgements to the judge if you have to go there.

[NBDad]

Has your ex been paying child support for the kids all these years?

You have an established status quo, you obviously had enough benefit shown in the last move for a judge to allow it. Personally I would avoid moving and try to stay in the same area for a few years at least. A move (especially one to a different school zone) would constitute a material change and your ex could push for custody.

The fact you have been the primary caregiver for years, that the kids have a half-sibling that they are used to seeing and being with, and that they don't want a change (especially the 14 and 12 year olds, their wishes will carry some weight with the court) all work in your favor.

As long as you are reasonable (and facilitating access over and above the agreement is great to show this) then judge's will be VERY hesitant to disrupt the status quo. LEGALLY your ex can get joint custody at some point. I suspect the only reason it wasn't given to his previously was the distance involved. A move by you, or by him, or indeed any material change in circumstance, would be grounds for him to revisit the arrangements.

As long as you are being reasonable and child focused (and the advice DTTE gave you regarding how to word things properly is one way to help show that) then there should be no reason to return to court. If your ex continues to push it, ask for costs.

[MommaBear73]

Thank you both for your help
I realize wording is very important, and will be very careful next week at the case conference. I used the word gave as he didn't ask for it, I just thought it would be good for them all to spend more time together and offered it. I even suggested that instead of the 3 weeks he asked for when we made up our divorce order that from now on he gets a month every summer.
He is the one that wrote up the divorce agreement giving me sole custody and suggesting the holiday schedule, he emailed it to me then we began negotiating. We met at a coffee shop to finalize/sign. The Judge at his emergency motion to try to block the move here said that the divorce order that we had already was great, and why couldn't just stick with it, or work it this out ourselves again. I agreed with the Judge as the move is not hurting his time with the boys and was totally in their best interest, but my ex disagreed. The Judge then told him that him getting custody and being taken from me would cause the children more disruption then us moving here ever would. He still wouldn't listen so here we are.
No, he hasn't paid child support the entire time. When we first split he didn't pay for 2 years, stating he had too many bills. We were both still in AB and were sharing custody. I have the kids about 70% of the time due to his career as he goes on courses a lot. He told me as we had joint custody he didn't have to help out with the kids. I spoke at a lawyer who said there had to be a balance of income between homes. He made $58,000 per annum, I made $15,000. I told him but he still refused to help. When he requested the move to be closer to his new gf he said he would start paying, it took a few months and me threatening to go to his CO but he did. When we did up the divorce agreement after we moved back here I said I wouldn't go after back pay, I just wanted him to start helping with the boys and a huge drawn out court battle would not be good for them.
When he told us he was moving back here I literally begged him to take us with him, he could have gotten expenses for the kids as they are his dependents and I was willing to pitch in for gas/hotels. He refused. The kids remember this and are still hurt by it.
My lawyer is asking for it to be dismissed with costs. He originally asked for custody saying I was disrupting their lives, then he said I wasn't taking care of their medical needs (both of which were proven false) and now he is saying that I am trying to alienate the kids from him. He hasn't missed one weekend with them, he can call anytime he wants and is supposed to web cam with them twice a week. He has called here 3 times since Nov. 1st and only web cammed with them 3 times even though we are always here when he schedules time. The boys are upset that he is trying to move them there, and have refused to visit. I still make them go as I know they love him and once they get there it will be fine. My yongest it the most upset and the last visit I brought him and he refused to leave the car. I told him that his Daddy loved him very much and would be sad and cry if he didn't go see him. He said that he cried and told him that he didn't want to move there and his Dad didn't care, so why should he care when his Dad cries. Broke my heart, but I still convinced him to go. My ex even thanked me, said he appreciated how I tried so hard, then 4 days later served me with paperworking accusing me of alienating him from them.
Sometimes I feel like I'm in Crazytown and he's the Mayor. I suggested an early drop off as there was a huge storm hitting on Sunday last weekend(freezing rain etc) and thought it would be best for us all to be back home before dark (we meet halfway) he freaked out, saying I was taking time from his kids and said he'd been driving in storms and the dark for the last 2 years to see kids, bashed my partner and refused my suggestion so I said fine, that we would be there the regularly scheduled time.
Sunday morning I get an email that he's dropping them off early as he is worried about the storm. Crazytown. ;o)

[MommaBear73]

So he's sent me a proposal.

I just give him sole custody, the kids move there then we move there when we can and we begin joint custody with a Friday to Friday schedule.

The kids have no friends or family there but him, he wants to put them in Catholic schools even though they aren't Catholic and have always gone to public schools, they haven't lived with him on a full time basis since November of 2005, they didn't see him from June of 2007-July of 2008 and have only seen him every other weekend since then, they have never lived away from me, they will be leaving their newborn half-brother and all their friends and family here, go to new schools when they are doing so well in these ones as well as no longer being a part of the extra curricular activites they are thriving in here. All that and they have made it very clear to both him and I that while they love him they do not wish to change their current access schedule with him and want to remain here.

The cost of living there is insane as well. I looked into housing and they want $1500 for a 3 bedroom townhouse, I am paying $1300 for a 5 bedroom home with a pool. They would have to be bused to their schools there, here they are a very short walk. Both my ex and his new wife work so they expect my oldest to start babysitting the boys as well as her 5 year old for them before and after school. I am a SAHM so am here for them 24/7.

I don't know if I should write him back and say no, or just get my lawyer to tell him. He emailed me this, saying it would be better for us both financially if I agree to it.

I can't help but feel he's just trying to get out of paying child support again. He emailed me in the summer asking if it was okay if he got a second job and I didn't ask for any money for the kids. I said no problem. It's a recession and it's hard to make ends meet nowadays. He hasn't found an extra job yet, but insists if we move there he can find my partner one. Crazy.

[billiechic]

NOO!!!! You have sole custody and he is askng you to uproot your family just so he doesn't drag you through court!! He is gently blackmailing you.

Sit down and write yourself a pro/con list. Do one for moving close to dad, and one for staying where you are. Include any costs (both expenses and emotional costs, things the kids will lose (friends, sports etc)) and any gains for both scenarios. Try not to be biased. When you are done, get someone else to look it over and ask them what you forgot.

This is going to tell you what to do. Don't take him up on his offer without taking that lst to a lawyer. You have status quo, and it's working for the kids. He's going to need VERY strong reasons to change that and from what you've written, t just isn't enough. Don't let him convince you it is.

[Mess]

I don't see this as "getting out of child support" because if the children live with him week on/week off then he is supporting them. He may feel bitterness and resentment at paying out support when they don't live with him which is a different story.

I don't feel he is handling this well or negotiating with you well, but it isn't just not wanting to pay.

Housing is cheaper near you, counter offer that he gets 50/50 but he moves to your neighbourhood. The kids don't get uprooted and keep every advantage you listed, and they get full relationships with both parents on top of it. If I were him and I wanted to be with my kids that bad, I would put their interests first, move to them and commute to my job. He will save money on housing there the same as you do from you description. Present something like this in a friendly way and let him try to come up with reasons why not; then you will see how reasonable he is actually willing to be.

[MommaBear73]

Thanks Billiechic! Am going to start that list right away. I am fairly confident that things will be resolved next week but there's still that lingering fear that makes my heart pound. Could just be the new mommy hormones as well
In my reply to his original paperwork I included proof they have a doctor here (he said they didn't) report cards showing their increases in grades since the move (14 year olds' math mark has risen 30%! Sooo proud!) letters from their teachers stating how well they are doing and adjusting to new schools (one called my teenager a 'model student') an award my 9 year old won for showing strength of character as well as listing the activities they have joined since moving here that weren't available to them at our previous residence. Also, all the friends and family we left behind to follow him and his career are here, as well as my parents are moving here soon.
He is refusing to send me their benefit paperwork for dental/prescriptions/glasses until I agree that he can bring them to a dentist there instead of them having one here. He's saying that since he brought them to a dentist there once if I register them with one here I am causing them instability. Am I wrong in thinking that's just plain loopey? My lawyer says he's grasping, I just keep trying to take deep breaths and keep thinking "This to shall pass"
Thank you again for your advice, it is greatly appreciated.

[dadtotheend]

I just give him sole custody, the kids move there then we move there when we can and we begin joint custody with a Friday to Friday schedule.

RANT------>BEGIN

Sucker offer.

That's an idiotic lawyer talking, hoping that you will be stupid enough to accept it on the faith that everything will be fine when you move there. As soon as the new status is developed, he will renege and stiff you.

That kind of an offer is such an insult to your intelliegence, it makes me want to puke. As much as I would want to deliver my boot to the lawyer's groin who was ballsy enough to make that play, you gots to be civil and politely decline.

When I was spending many 10's of $'000s in my case, I was hoping for a consolation prize whereby I would get access to some skillful lawyering that would stimulate me intellectually. Unfortunately, that kind of gutter tactic is about the best they got. Time and again, I got jack shit, they showed me nothing. It's f'n ridiculous.

Lawyers are just as smart, no make that dumb, as the rest of us. They just have more education. When I see that kind of lowball, sleazy card being played, I shake my head and wonder how anyone with a conscience can immerse themself in that world day to day, week to week, month to month, year to year.

They say that Christmas is the busiest time of year for family law lawyers. That's because they are bringing and answering to holiday access motions in the weeks, days and even hours leading up to Christmas. I say, fuck the lawyers, they deserve to spend Christmas in the sewer!!

RANT----->END

[MommaBear73]

Hey Mess, I did suggest he move here, he is in the military and could get a posting to Ottawa easily which would mean a 1 hour drive to see kids. He said he can't move here, his new wife has an agreement in her divorce if she moves her son must stay in the area with his father. He said if he is given a transfer he can't refuse he is quitting the military to stay there as a reservist. Unlike my ex and I who haven't lived near each other in years, she and her ex have always resided in the same city and all her and his family is there.
I know he wants us there to see the boys more, but he put as part of his pros of us moving there is the financial benefits as he would save money on gas if he didn't have to drive every other weekend to pick them up. Also, the boys have stated even if we were in the same area they don't want to do the 50/50 arrangement, they like things as they are.
I was going to offer adding to the divorce agreement already in place that I can't move without his consent from now on (right now it just states that I can't leave Ontario), maybe start doing a communication book so he is kept up to date on their day to day lives. What do you think?

[billiechic]

So sad that it's true. DTTE is right, it is a lowball offer and I hope you don't let it pressure you.

[dadtotheend]

Too bad, so sad, love Dad

Hey, one other thing. Those offers are also designed to get you pissed off. They want an emotional irrational reaction from you that they can later on use against you to show that you aren't being reasonable. Another big big reason to remain civil.

Patience and humility will carry the day. It's incredibly hard to do, but it is far more rewarding to play it like that, especially when you look back after your done with court and you can pat yourself on the back for taking the high road.

[MommaBear73]

Lmao @ DTTE!! Omg, thank you for the morning laughs! That is a great post. At the emergency motion to try to block my move here his lawyer (weasel faced witch) pulled me aside and started talking in this patronizing tone and said "Here's what we're proposing. You just give him the kids for a year, see how it goes. That way you can move to your new house, have your baby and your spouse can start his new job" The whole time I was shaking my head no. So then her tone changed and she said "Well, now I'm going to put my lawyer cap on, and if you don't agree to this today I am going to use what you wrote on Facebook against you" I called him an a$$clown (he had been harassing me while I was on bedrest for pre-mature labour and my Uncle had just died. I lost it) I told her to go right ahead. They also asked that I pay $3500 at the motion even though it was dismissed. Ridiculous. He is now self-representing.

[MommaBear73]

I agree DTTE, it seems like he keeps trying to get a rise out of me, I just breathe, and calmly write him back. The last email he tried to get me upset by bashing my partner. I walked away for a bit, then wrote him very calmly back. During the emergeny motion I was actually in labour, and ended up having an emergency c-section 2 days later. I really tried to remain calm then, but I admit, there was tears.

[dadtotheend]

Lmao @ DTTE!! Omg, thank you for the morning laughs! That is a great post.

Thanks! I aim to please

At the emergency motion to try to block my move here his lawyer (weasel faced witch) pulled me aside and started talking in this patronizing tone and said "Here's what we're proposing. You just give him the kids for a year, see how it goes. That way you can move to your new house, have your baby and your spouse can start his new job" The whole time I was shaking my head no. So then her tone changed and she said "Well, now I'm going to put my lawyer cap on, and if you don't agree to this today I am going to use what you wrote on Facebook against you" .

See, you know what time it is! No shame, unfuckingbelievable. They act in ways that us normal people can't fathom. They're sociopaths. They try to bullyass intimidate you because they know your on their turf, scared, emotional and out of your element. Sleazeballs.

I told her to go right ahead.

Perfect.