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  • Can she pull it off?

    Some of you have helped me out on my situation but need general help:

    Overview:
    Divorced father of two boys aged 7 & 9 currently. Separated 2005 ex wife had primary residential custody in matrimonial home (Mississauga), I moved out, no separation agreement. I had kids 40% of time (as this was her arrangement with her 2 kids from prev marriage). Worked out to way more because she was away with her boyfriend all the time.

    I moved to Kitchener beginning of 2007 for decent job opportunity. Ex and I agreed that I would take the kids every weekend instead of split week days and weekends, due to the distance.

    I got custody in 2007 due to Domestic violence in her home (stemming from alcohol & drug abuse). Lost license due to DUI
    OCL got involved and their report recommended sole custody to me. Ex vowed to fight and her lawyer told us to prepare for a LONG trial. Already had spent all my money and was in huge debt.
    Ex wife approached me for settlement after the trial conference where judge strongly urged it.

    Result:
    - Joint custody with me having primary residential
    - She got my half of the house in return
    - No child support to be paid by ex wife
    - She sees kids every other weekend and 2 nights per week. Specific times are stated in the agreement.
    - Transportation shared 50/50 except weekdays in which she stated she would provide transportation. She agreed because she claimed her drivers license would be reinstated within a year (2009).
    - Random drug and alcohol testing for her boyfriend who was responsible for most (but not all) of the domestic violence.
    - Proof of regular councelling for boyfriend
    - Shared vacations and summer holidays etc.

    Reality:
    - Ex wife has split up with said boyfriend.
    - She has moved 4 times in last 18months and had to live with her mother twice for 6months and then 3 months. Mother could not handle having our kids around so I was constantly asked to pick them up earlier than arranged. I have kept very detailed records of every transfer incident.
    - Ex wife has not excercised weekly access - claims cannot drive here during the week, due to not being able to get license back.
    - Ex wife cannot provide 50/50 transportation on weekend either for same reasons and forces me to provide this.
    - Ex wife claimed bankruptcy and is now on welfare
    - Have lent ex-wife money several times
    - she still drinks and has called me, with the kids in her care, noticably intoxicated. No proof though.

    She has emailed me and stated that she has legal aid and is going to go back to the courts for the following reasons:

    1) She wants primary residential custody because the boyfriend is out of the picture and she's trying to get her life back(Everyone who knows her, knows her motivation is solely financial in nature - she wants the CS payments).
    2) She wants to change the transportation and access arrangements, claiming material change in circumstance. i.e. her boyfriend is no longer in the picture and she agreed to/suggested transportation terms based on him being able to provide transportation. Although it says nothing to this effect in the court order.
    3) She claims we (my spouse and I), are terrible parents but she'll never be able to prove this as it is entirely untrue.
    4) She never asks to see school reports, to be involved in school activities, or to be given school schedules and curriculum. Has never attended concerts or sporting events etc. We have the boys enrolled in numerous activities outside of school.
    5) She is alienating the kids telling them that I won't let her see them and that I took them away from her.
    6) She emails abuse and threats at us everytime we do not provide transportation when it is her turn. We have shown a ton of flexibility which always seems to backfire.
    7) She is now attending courses and has moved into a rented townhouse. We are confused as to how she will pay for this on welfare as she has been evicted a few times prior to this.

    Need advice:

    What are her chances in your opinion regarding the custody arrangements and transportation issues?

    Should I continue to be flexible (even though it is affecting our family life and creating diappointment for the kids a lot of the time) or stick to the court order only?


    To summarize, kids have been with me for 3years. In that time 2 new baby brothers have entered the picture and new bonds have been formed. We have a loving and stable home and there have been no material changes in circumstance on my end.
    Neighbourhood and school friends have been made. Kids grades have improved.

    I am in turmoil over these things and cannot bear the thought of my kids going back to live in that situation. They are allowed to do whatever they want there and all stability and structure goes out the window. Not to mention the choice characters that she entertains from time to time.

    Some of you have given me very sound advice for which I amvery grateful, but more is welcomed!

  • #2
    Don't know if this will help but IF your ex were to by some odd chance get the residential custody, she will NOT get child support from you. Her welfare would increase SLIGHTLY to compensate for the children BUT anything you pay her is directly subtracted from her welfare payment making it not much more to live on for her but a lot more $ going out, too bad she is unaware of this...

    Comment


    • #3
      Also, submit to her in writing: Email or registered letter. As her to exercise her right to weekly visits as it has been noted to be in the best intrests of the child for her to do so. Suggest that she uses public transit, even if she could only do it sometimes, VIA rail and others have transportation between Kitchener and Mississauga,

      For the custody she does not have much of a chance, if she moved to Kitchener then she might get a lot more access but taking the kids out of their school won't be likely... If she manages to get this heard by a judge call in OCL right away. They will try and keep the kids in their current school and lifestyle because a material change in curcumstance is never favoured.

      Comment


      • #4
        This thread is a virtual duplicate of:

        http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...ids-back-7701/

        and not too different from:

        http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...our-kids-7720/

        Dude, how many times do you need to hear it? If you need to be constantly coddled, why don't you just bump http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...ids-back-7701/ when the urge hits rather than repeating your story in a different place ?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by dadtotheend View Post
          This thread is a virtual duplicate of:

          http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...ids-back-7701/

          and not too different from:

          http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...our-kids-7720/

          Dude, how many times do you need to hear it? If you need to be constantly coddled, why don't you just bump http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...ids-back-7701/ when the urge hits rather than repeating your story in a different place ?
          Dude, I started of specifically by saying I had already recieved help on this situation... and then ended with it again. I had felt my first two attempts did not capture the whole story and were focused on different areas of the situation. I also thought they could have been articulated better and was worried without the whole picture any advice given would be based on imcomplete information.

          I figured anyone who had commented on those would not bother on this post. Please don't feel you have to read (or comment on) my posts.

          Comment


          • #6
            What are her chances in your opinion regarding the custody arrangements and transportation issues?
            Her chances = HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHA...seriously though, 3 years of established status quo, established bond with step brothers and a mother with a history of multiple moves (I'm guessing to different school zones), and not exercising the access she currently has per the existing order? Good LUCK with that.

            Should I continue to be flexible (even though it is affecting our family life and creating diappointment for the kids a lot of the time) or stick to the court order only?
            To a point. If she can't make an access time and SPECIFICALLY asks for make up time...then yes, work with her to the best of your ability (and the kids schedules)

            Ex wife cannot provide 50/50 transportation on weekend either for same reasons and forces me to provide this.
            How the heck does she "force" you. There is a ridiculously easy solution to your problem. Unless your court order spells it out specifically otherwise...you send her an email saying that the 50-50 split of transportation will be as follows on a go forward basis (due to the confusion and issues that have occurred in the past)

            SHE comes to get them to begin her access. YOU go to retrieve them to end it.

            Period. End of story. End of problem. Will the kids be disappointed if she doesn't show up? You bet. Is this something they'll blame YOU for? Nope.

            "Mommy comes to get you on her days, I'm sorry she didn't show up, but I can't force her to come. Let's go get ice cream or do something together instead"

            I'm doing it now with my FOUR kids. My nutjob of an ex exercises MAYBE one 5 1/2 hour access time out of 3.

            Ex wife claimed bankruptcy and is now on welfare
            As has been mentioned, this would automatically nullify Child Support assuming she beats the snowball's chance in hell of getting the kids any more than she does now.

            Have lent ex-wife money several times
            To be blunt, you sir, are a moron. Stop being a nice guy. It will get you NOWHERE.

            She emails abuse and threats at us every time we do not provide transportation when it is her turn. We have shown a ton of flexibility which always seems to backfire.
            Save the emails. Email correspondence is ADMISSIBLE as exhibit or affidavit evidence in court. All this shows is her piss poor attitude.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by J_Kitchener2010 View Post
              I figured anyone who had commented on those would not bother on this post. Please don't feel you have to read (or comment on) my posts.
              How the tide turns when you get what you don't want to hear.

              If you had more information to add why didn't you add to the other thread, instead of repeating everything you said in that thread and adding a little bit? At least 80% of what you wrote above is in your other thread.

              You have been advised in spades by several people how things are going to play out already. You are in one of the strongest positions of anyone here now and in recent memory. Posting the same facts and asking the same questions in different threads makes you look needy, not simply looking for different opinions.
              Last edited by dadtotheend; 09-29-2010, 08:31 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                To J_Kitchener,

                She is trying to get under your skin and you are letting her!!!! I do not want to sound harsh but please step back at take a look at the bigger picture. I know that it is hard but yoy must disconect yourself emotionally from this otherwise things will not improve.

                As far as your situation, I would not put any weight to her threats at all. if the information you have provided is accurate then she is totally out to lunch.

                I think I have given you advice on your other thread as to what steps you need to perhaps put in place to remedy this. I also have a very unreasonable ex and the biggest thing you need to do at this point and stop letting her in. Trust me on this one. Given enough rope and enough time she will eventually hang herself and hopefully use it as a clue she needs to make drastic changes to her life.

                Keep the emails and document all of her other unreasonable behaviour. If she takes you to court than she takes you to court, it sucks, yes, but at least you will be the parent who has always been reasonable and child focused. That is all you can do.

                Remember to always put the needs of your kids first but this does not mean you have to comprimise yourself doing it. Stop lending her money. Stop allowing her to break whats in the order as well. Flexability is a two way street and both parents have to do it to be great parents, not just you caving to her demands. Always be as reasonable as possible as well but do not allow her to dictate the show. Do not enable her behaviour. Make her live up to her obligations as a mother and an adult.

                If you want some more help and tools to help you deal with this send me a PM. I would gladly share what I have learned with regards to dealing with this type of person.

                good luck and stay focused!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hey J_Kitchener,

                  Unfortunately, the court system does not support fathers very well regardless of the situation with the ex.

                  In my case, I have the separation agreement and divorce order, signed by both of us, our lawyers, and the judge, which clearly states that I should have 50% custody of my son this year (the year he turns 10).

                  I sufferred for 5 years waiting for this day (missed work opportunities, lived on an extremely tight budget to ensure downpayment to buy house for this day), and when I started the process to formalize the 50/50 arrangement, she informed me that she did want this anymore.

                  I have a good career with very decent salary, never miss a support payment (monthly payments in excess of $2300 plus she got the paid off house), don't smoke or drink, no record, no reason not to have my son; and my lawyer told me in Ontario, if the woman changes her mind, even with signed contracts, the courts side with her 99% of the time. He then went on to tell me the cost of a court battle I would almost certainly lose would be around the $20 ~ 25K mark ... basically consuming a good portion of my house downpayment.

                  Sadly I have not found any way to get her to honor the contract without incurring excessive costs. If anyone has advice, would appreciate it; but as of now, I think there is nothing to help the father when the mother deviates from court orders / contracts.

                  Best of luck and don't get depressed over it, find the positives and focus on them.

                  Regards,

                  OF.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ottawa_Father View Post
                    Hey J_Kitchener,

                    Unfortunately, the court system does not support fathers very well regardless of the situation with the ex.

                    In my case, I have the separation agreement and divorce order, signed by both of us, our lawyers, and the judge, which clearly states that I should have 50% custody of my son this year (the year he turns 10).

                    I sufferred for 5 years waiting for this day (missed work opportunities, lived on an extremely tight budget to ensure downpayment to buy house for this day), and when I started the process to formalize the 50/50 arrangement, she informed me that she did want this anymore.

                    I have a good career with very decent salary, never miss a support payment (monthly payments in excess of $2300 plus she got the paid off house), don't smoke or drink, no record, no reason not to have my son; and my lawyer told me in Ontario, if the woman changes her mind, even with signed contracts, the courts side with her 99% of the time. He then went on to tell me the cost of a court battle I would almost certainly lose would be around the $20 ~ 25K mark ... basically consuming a good portion of my house downpayment.

                    Sadly I have not found any way to get her to honor the contract without incurring excessive costs. If anyone has advice, would appreciate it; but as of now, I think there is nothing to help the father when the mother deviates from court orders / contracts.

                    Best of luck and don't get depressed over it, find the positives and focus on them.

                    Regards,

                    OF.
                    99% of the time? Your lawyer is so very wrong. Judging by that inspiring post, all us dads should all just throw in the towel right now. Or at least throw your lawyer into Lake Ontario.

                    All your post does is to feed straight into J_Kitchener2010's anxieties about what is going to happen. J_Kitchener2010, do NOT let this post discourage you. What that lawyer told Ottawa_Father is stereotypical nonsensical advice that should only be followed by fathers that aren't willing to do right by their kids and then blame it on the system afterward. There are many many more than 1% of us dads out there that refuse to accept that bullshit and who are willing, and have, fought and succeeded to be involved equally, or more, in our kids lives.

                    Ottawa_Father, did you agree to a parenting schedule that puts your son's primary residence with Mom for five years and then attempts to change that status quo to 50% shared parenting when your child turns 10? If so, that's status quo operating against you, not gender.

                    Please don't project your situation onto all but 1% of fathers out there.
                    Last edited by dadtotheend; 09-30-2010, 03:14 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by NBDad View Post
                      Her chances =

                      SHE comes to get them to begin her access. YOU go to retrieve them to end it.

                      Period. End of story. End of problem. Will the kids be disappointed if she doesn't show up? You bet. Is this something they'll blame YOU for? Nope.

                      .
                      NBDad - I completely agree with your reasoning here and during one of her rare moments of reason and flexibility we tried it... until she couldn't come through on her end of the bargain and the kids never got picked up for several weekends in a row. This caused more threats and demands from her and the whole thing fell apart quickly. Not to mention the heartbreak my boys felt.

                      Anyway we cannot do that AND stick to the court order at the same time because court order states that:

                      "Pickup and drop off responsibilities on Fridays and Sundays will alternate between mother and father"... "if Father provides drop off one Friday, Mother will provide pickup on the friday of her next weekend access". Forgive my poor paraphrasing, but I don't have the agreement with me. That is the gist of it though.

                      I agree it would solve all of our issues if we could have it this way because then I'm never relying on her to bring the kids back to me.... which is always when she miraculously can't find anyone to drive her.

                      Should I go to court and file a motion to change? If I do, won't it open up an opportunity for her to request her own changes?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by dadtotheend View Post
                        How the tide turns when you get what you don't want to hear.

                        If you had more information to add why didn't you add to the other thread, instead of repeating everything you said in that thread and adding a little bit? At least 80% of what you wrote above is in your other thread.

                        You have been advised in spades by several people how things are going to play out already. You are in one of the strongest positions of anyone here now and in recent memory. Posting the same facts and asking the same questions in different threads makes you look needy, not simply looking for different opinions.
                        DadtotheEnd. Would it help if I said I was sorry? I am not trying to waste people's time here, just get advice. When you stumble across a resource as great as this forum, after muddling helplessly through the dark and confusing emptiness that is our family law system, it can be overwhelming and may cause one to post incorrectly or be oblivious to 'forum etiquette'. Perhaps I am needy when it comes to my kids, but I think I was just looking for advice.
                        I do appreciate your opinion though and have seen your comments here and on other posts. You clearly have a good understanding of the system. Thanks again. <O</O

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mrsb View Post
                          To J_Kitchener,


                          Flexability is a two way street and both parents have to do it to be great parents, not just you caving to her demands. Always be as reasonable as possible as well but do not allow her to dictate the show. Do not enable her behaviour. Make her live up to her obligations as a mother and an adult.
                          Thank you MRSB for the sensible post. Flexibility sure is a two way street.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thank you all for your posts.

                            On the few occasions I have actually refused to drive the kids to her when it was her turn to pick them up, she started accusing me of being a terrible parent becuase I was stopping my kids from seeing their mother. When she finally calmed down she said "ok bring them Saturday but I want a make up day". I did not agree to that. Obviously I don't cave to all of her demands and I'm not a complete fool but 2 years of this wears you down.

                            My fear is that by taking a hard line, as has been suggested here, she is going to portray me as an inflexible tyrant (her words), who won't help her see her kids. I know this is a stretch but where does one draw the line?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              One draws the line at obeying your duties of the court order....plain and simple.

                              Comment

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