Hi Gooddad,
I would say if you can, or have witnesses to the fact, get affidavits regarding your ex and the fact she is making her disability out to be worse then what it is just to screw you over. Have your sister in law, the doctor, write out her opinion that there is no reason why she can't go to school or hold down a job.
It may not do anything, but I would like to hope that it will make her look less credible, lazy, etc. I have people doing that for me regarding my ex's drug and alcohol abuse and gambling addiction. My lawyer said I would not be obligated to pay for his addictions, so hopefully these affidavits will help me some.
I still don't understand how come we have a law here in this country of plenty where adults are not responsible for themselves. But what sickens me more then that is the PEOPLE who use and abuse and take these GUIDELINES (for spousal support) to the extreme.
If everyone over the age of say, 21, knew that the only way they would get spousal support was if they were the primary child-care provider and stayed home with the kids, then our country would probably be much better off.
The first thing my lawyer(s) told me basically was that marriage is a partnership. To me that means 50% equal...so in my case, if he does not support the family because he is the lower income earner, he does not pay for 50% of the household expenses, he does not pay 50% towards his childrens support and/or education, he does not do 50% of the household chores, or buy 50% of the food, etc., then how is this a partnership????
It all just makes me sick that a MAN would stoop this low -- I am trying hard not to be sexist, but he has been sexist toward me because I have done 99% of the "female" roles of the marriage, as he expected me to. I have and work with a lot of male friends and it was unanimous that none of them would (or did) take money from their wives (or ex's) who earned more. That just goes to prove mine is being vindictive.
Anyways, my opinion, again.
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GDGM,
What a terribly frustrating situation you're in.
I'm sure a lot of us have heard this one before: Please tell your lawyer *everything*! The best way to do that is in writing. This makes things much easier for lawyers and their staff to keep track of the relationship history of the parties, both before and after separation. What may appear as irrelevant information to you could end up being significant information to your lawyer!
Lindsay
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Customgal
I understand your frustration so well. Like you, I feel that there are instances that spousal support is necessary. In my case, I am mostly angry and frustrated that my ex is using a dubious disablility to try to get out of working and/or eventually becoming self-sufficient.
I want to make something very clear, I was married to her for 17 years and not one single day of those years did I EVER see her in the condition she now claims to be in and cannot work as a result of. She was diagnosed with very mild fibromyalgia and her doctor recommended that she get more exercise and eat better. She did neither. About once a month she will complain about an ache, but this has never stopped her from going shopping, taking our son to the park or meeting for family dinners. This woman is NOT disabled. It is so ridiculous that it makes me crazy with friustration that this could be what will give her indefinate support. My sister in law is a doctor, has known my ex for 20 years, and when I told her that the ex was trying to say that she couldn't work because of the supposed dsability, my sister in law rolled her eyes and said "you've got to be kidding" furthermore, mutual friends have seen her out and about on a daily basis looking great and quite tanned and healthy. Yet, in her court paperwork my ex says that she is unable to work because she's disabled. It's so sickening.
I was wondering something. Last year, twice within a 6 month period, my ex left my son with her family ( wouldn't leave him with me even though I begged ) and took two trips out of Province to the casino city with girlfriends, which lasted 4 and 5 days. Should I mention this to my lawyer? I mean, if she's able to go off on these trips then doesn't this show that she's doing pretty good in the health department? I think this is also useful information in showing the court how uncooperative she is being with me accessing my son. At the time that she took these trips I was living in the same town as her. The first trip she outright told me that I wasn't getting my son and the second trip I didn't even know about until after the fact. She left my little boy with her sisters and parents who are elderly, all while here I was, wanting to see him so badly and begging for that contact. Now she is saying that she wants me to have "reasonable access with reasonable notice" and I am argueing that her idea of reasonable is not going to work given what history dictates...such as what I just told you above. I am asking for specified access and I pray to god I will get it! As it stands right now, I cannot even talk to him on the phone as she refuses to answer. I am so worried about what this is doing that little boy. It appears I am going to have to paint a very clear picture to the judge showing her refusal to cooperate with the access issue and my son. Any suggestions as to how I can do this effectively?
Gosh I write on and on .... ha!.....bear with me, I'm getting better!
GDGM
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btw I commend you for all your get go in going back to school - that rocks and you should always be proud of that! Personally I think you are setting a great example for your daughter.
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I do open my mouth pretty wide sometimes I call it how i see it and yes it does get me in trouble sometimes. Open mouth insert foot( and I have big feet lol)
But what I basically was getting at was that the law is how the law is. Yes it can suck sometimes and It is supposed to be gender neutral and often isn't. People don't like hearing the cold hard reality some days( hell I don't lol- fantasy is MUCH better to live in some days ) And I am soooo with you - I can't even think about dating at this point in my life
Something tells me that gooddad's wife is never going to go back to work. Be it her disablity, laziness whatever - if she would rather be on welfare( i mean really who would?, imo) she has dug her heels in and will see this to the end. Plus with welfare and legal aide involved - she may not even have a choice in the matter( at this stage I would be she would) There was a case where one spouse was disabled- knew it at separation, signed an agreement ... then later became further disabled and on disability. Disability basically went after the spouse for support. Even though she didn't want to . Kinda scary ain't it?
jenny
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Chances are,
You sound like you are going through what I have been going through -- Jenny, I did not say I do not believe in spousal support under no circumstances -- not true, I even stated before that I do have a conscience and I still feel guilty for ending this marriage. But I believe spousal support IS for a spouse who has given up his or her career to care for children, has been out of the workforce for say, 10 or 15 years, and has no employable skills. Otherwise, an adult is an adult and an adult who is employed IS and SHOULD BE responsible for him/herself!!
I begged my ex to go to school, apply for better jobs. HE VEHEMENTLY refused. FOR YEARS. He believes SOMEONE else should work hard and pay his way through life.
CHances are, I wish my ex had your morals and scruples. My sister calls him a Pimp, because he has no problem taking money from women (myself and his mommy) who work hard.
I don't even make that much more then him. $30 grand -- and that is before taxes. He does not care where he lives either, in fact, before we moved to this nice big home we lived in a semi that was falling apart and in which he couldn't be bothered to do anything to fix it up. It was my doing to move here. I LOVE this house, my daughter loves this house and he never wanted to move here. Seriously, as long as he has a cigarette in one hand, and a bingo dabber in the other, he could care less where he resides. HE DOES NOT NEED MY MONEY TO SUPPORT HIMSELF!! Many families live on less then $35,000 per year!
I have attempted to negotiate with him, telling him I want nothing from him, don't want child support, he can have every single thing in this house. But he is not willling to be reasonable.
I am all for supporting someone who is truly needy, as in the situation I mentioned above, or if the spouse is really disabled and can not work. As for a perfectly healthy adult NO FRIGGIN WAY!!
Just to continue with what Kim was saying...Jenny, to be honest, you are a bit brutal at times and I did feel somewhat attacked by you in your earlier posts. Your latest one to me though was welcomed and appreciated. Go easy on us, huh? We are not in a good frame of mind, the depression is also eating me up. Because of my ex, I do not trust men and have no desire to "date" or have a relationship.
Good dad sounds like a great father. Sure his wife stayed at home, but what is stopping her from being responsible for herself?? It was her choice and I don't think anybody should be responsible for another adult once a relationship is over. Maybe in her case, and those like her, the other spouse could pay for a couple years of re-training? I don't know and I don't feel sorry for her, because I went to college full-time when my son was only 18 months old and I basically attended 4 years of night school classes as well while my children were young while working full-time. SO these people who expect to be supported it is just because they are lazy and lack ambition and our great Canadian law is allowing it.
Something has to be done, and the sooner the better.
Customgal
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Kimber.. You are probably not reading this but anyway....
Feel free to actually argue his points for him. You don't need to go away- I like a good debate. I just think it is useless to argue the "you're a big meanie" "no, I'm not" arguement. You can think what you want and I will say what I want and think. Noone actually debates what i have said- give me real points - don't just give a blanket statement on "you're wrong" DETAILS how am i wrong? which FACTS have I got wrong? No one seems willing to actually debate them or tell me which facts I have got wrong.
I might make a good lawyer - thanks I don't need to since I have a very good lawyer right now. Love her.
BTW I too am depressed and have panic disorder- what kind of person post to me like you have??? lol- I'm a big girl I can handle it. If gooddad can't then he should head on over to divorce support or some other board. This isn't a place where I am going to agree with everything you or anyone else says.
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Jenny said:
My posts seemed to have made you join this group as a member so I might argue that they aren't a deterant gee- did that smiley face offend you? sorry.
Look, you are not behaving properly and that is it. Is is really necessary to say things like " gee - did that smiley face offend you? sorry..." no, it isn't necessary and I believe that you are instigating something within your posts which are sarcastic and inappropriate. I'm done with you as of this post and I suggest that the moderators of this group speak with you about your poor conduct.
I think you'd make a really great cut-throat lawyer. I have read all of good dads posts and it's clear that you are leaving out some very important parts of his story and choose to quote many parts which don't equal up to the truth of it. You are twisting things and are putting words in his mouth.
If the man is depressed and suffering from anxiety attacks, then what kind of person would come on here and post to him in such a cold and sarcastic way? You say you have sympathy for him in this area but the man is clearly here for support and advice. I don't think he was offended by your legal advice but moreso your tone and the fact that you twist everything he says to make him look bad. I can read between the lines and I see very clearly what is happening here. Divorce and the arduous process can be very stressful and I myself am going through the depression that accompanies it. I sure wouldn't want to have a member of a group, that I am going to for advice and support, treat me that way. You have basically called him a liar and I have read the posts and that's not what I am getting at all. He is frustrated and alone. I think that how you are behaving is in very poor character given the circumstances. As I said, this is a difficult process for people and this is not the place to behave that way.
I have wasted enough of my energy on this and I hope you will rethink your approach on this forum. I will no longer be reading anything here simply because it exhausts me to see this kind of thing happening. I was so angry to see your ongoing attacks that I had to say something but I now realize that I am not up to bringing more stress into my life.
My prayers are with everyone here and I hope you will keep faith with you. A positive attitude goes a long way!
Blessings
Kim
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Kimber- I don't hate men - in fact I love em. The right ones that is ;-) My focus is spousal support because it is what I know about - having done research - I've also posted about many other topics- few are as heated in general though. Most ppl agree with the concept of child support for instance and those guidelines are set now. ppl rarely debate them.
My posts seemed to have made you join this group as a member so I might argue that they aren't a deterant gee- did that smiley face offend you? sorry.
The lols in question are directed at gooddadgoingmad- It was OBVIOUS he was refering to me - and he should have just come out and said it instead of tiptoeing around the subject. Unless he has made other enemies on here that I haven't noticed. I found it quite amusing how he went on and on about me without naming me - just name it and get it over with.
you said: Personally, I think you've got far too much time on your hands. It's because of people like you that I have avoided posting anything here. Time to get a life girl!
funny this seems like an attack - oh my gosh!!! don't worry about it I won't call you a hypocrite since I think it is right to say so and it is my right to disagree. I have a life and I enjoy it very much!
My issue with gooddadgoingmad is what I have said in previous posts. I find it bizarre all his posts have the same information in them- he chooses to ignore me EXCEPT with thinly veiled comments as in that post which you were upset at. That is what I was responding at - Just come out and say it.
These are my issues with what gooddad is about.....
-- his wife is lazy- his child is 6 - I don't know who raised this child while he was at work.
--she has a "fake" disability - which is supported by dr's and isn't even relevent- she would be entitled WITHOUT it. His depression/anxiety ( which i have experienced and wouldn't wish on my worst enemy) are usually thrown in though- her stuff is fake but he is really depressed/anxious- but she is faking.
He wants to know how he can force a bankruptcy on his wife - 'cause he had to with his share of the debts. umm hello??? Where did your sense of personal responsibility come from - did visa OWE you money? Did you work for THAT money? He seems to have 2 different standards for what is right for him and what is right for his wife.
-- he shouldn't have to pay her his support obligation- the govmt should- or she should have to live in poverty-( although he doesn't call 14 000 poverty in nfld - 95 000 in the north is though! ) Those are the things I found offensive about gooddad. I got called a big meanie and am just fine with that.
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Chancesare,
I pay $808 per month in child support. Plus extra expenses. Plus all his medical costs and any needs of that nature. Plus I send him gifts and clothes every month. Plus, I pay into a registered educational savings plan monthly for him. I do this because I love him and because I can, not because the courts forced me too. My ex is on welfare because she chooses to be. She is a young woman who is perfectly capable of working but like her sisters who are on welfare, is too lazy and is looking for a free ride. My ex was left everything....vehicle....pension...canada savings bonds ...computer she doesn't know how to turn on....painting my father painted....all furniture......I left the matrimonial home with nothing but a garbage bag full of clothes. After 17 years of working this is what I have to show for it. She, on the other hand, has everything and continues to refuse to work just as she did for her entire life. I am a good man but god help me, I cannot bite the bullet and hand over the bulk of my hard earned money to a woman who is lieing, being manipulative,and keeping me from even having a telephone conversation with my little boy.
If I thought for one second that my son was doing without, I would fix it. But I'll be damned if I'm going to hand my money over to her so that she can sit on her lazy behind and live off me while she enjoys EVERYTHING I ever worked for. Not gonna happen. If the courts enforce it, then so be it. But I won't do it willingly.
Thanks Kim for your support. I agree, to actually name names and go as low as to laugh at someone in a post is incredibly immature and uncalled for. It is my experience that peoople like this are just looking for negative attention and probably have poor interpersonal/communication skills and low self esteem. Don't be too discouraged from the group because of one person. The people here are wonderful and have a lot of great advice to offer. I encourage you to stay. Ignore those you find pesky, as I do.
Goooddadgoingmad
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chancesare......
What a refreshing post to hear a man be respectful and responsible for his children and former spouse in every way!
Alot of people could learn from you. Its so important for all to respect one another and be responsible.
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I agree with Lindsay. There is a support part of this group. This is the Divorce and Family Law section.
I don't post- in fact this is my first post. I lurk. I have found an abundance of information on both the FAQ's and this forum. Differing opinions are what make this a democracy and these boards interesting.
Personally as a man I would be ashamed to have my children and former wife living on welfare with what I make (I pay more and make less than the poster in question.) I make do. It is tight but it is what I signed up for when I married many years ago. What my wife gets in spousal support helps her live in a reasonable lifestyle and in turn supports my children. My father taught me many things among them, never hit a girl, support your family. He wouldn't be happy with my marriage dissolving but I have to say he would be proud of the way I have stayed in their lives and that I am supporting both my former wife and my children.
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Hi Kim,
I see where you are coming from. We do not want anyone to feel like they are being personally attacked on the forums. However, please note that there is a divorce support section designated for member support. Please keep in mind that these forums are here not only to provide support, but also to allow members to vent, educate themselves, share their situations and provide or obtain advice from other members.
It's wonderful that the forums are so popular! But, with that, like I said in my previous post, a few members are bound to butt heads. While we would hate to see any members leave because they are unhappy with what is being posted, we certainly cannot ban or remove a member simply because he or she does not completely agree with another member.
I think the best way to deal with a pesky member is to ignore him/her. In cases where someone is clearly harassing or personally attacking another member, you should contact a moderator immediately and report this.
Lindsay
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