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  • After requesting financials...

    Ex and I have a separation agreement where he is required to submit tax info and provide proof of life insurance each year that child support is in effect. He refuses now because he is sick of me (Can't blame him. LOL) and makes more money than ever before.

    If I wanted to "encourage" him to disclose, what are the steps to do so? I have recently filed the agreement with FRO because he refuses to pay any child support at all.
    Last edited by SadAndTired; 05-25-2023, 02:08 PM.

  • #2
    There really isn't anything else you can do other than file a motion to change requesting disclosure and full proof of insurance.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Rockscan. Would a judge see that as a frivolous "pain the butt" filing?

      And as a fyi, ex hasn't paid or disclosed in almost 3 years.....

      Comment


      • #4
        No because its an easy rubber stamp. As well, if he is making more money then the agreement says then he needs to update and pay retro.

        File a motion to update and in the amounts put in to be determined. That shows he hasn't provided disclosure and because he hasn't updated it will look poorly on him.

        Comment


        • #5
          Steps:
          1. File Motion to Change as rockscan states and put to be determined.
          2. Send a Form 20, Request for Disclosure. Give them 4 weeks to respond. The request is for your ex to disclose not their lawyer.
          3. Go to the case conference and ask for the disclosure there.
          4. If they do not comply with the Case Conference endorsement ordering disclosure then file a motion.

          Each region has their nuances in procedure.
          You may not get child support if it is for more than 3 years back.
          Stop negotiating and simply file, it sucks but the paper work is required.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by noteasy View Post
            Steps:
            1. File Motion to Change as rockscan states and put to be determined.
            2. Send a Form 20, Request for Disclosure. Give them 4 weeks to respond. The request is for your ex to disclose not their lawyer.
            3. Go to the case conference and ask for the disclosure there.
            4. If they do not comply with the Case Conference endorsement ordering disclosure then file a motion.

            Each region has their nuances in procedure.
            You may not get child support if it is for more than 3 years back.
            Stop negotiating and simply file, it sucks but the paper work is required.
            You don't need the form 20. He has to provide the disclosure for his response. You will also ask for proof of life insurance in the form.

            If you have been asking him for more than three years and he has ignored you then you can claim it. A judge may not award it but if he has been acting in bad faith it will be ordered.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by rockscan View Post
              You don't need the form 20. He has to provide the disclosure for his response. You will also ask for proof of life insurance in the form.
              If you have been asking him for more than three years and he has ignored you then you can claim it. A judge may not award it but if he has been acting in bad faith it will be ordered.
              I hear what you are saying the Ontario rules state that a Form 13 (.1) and 13a must be filed. Been there done that.
              Lawyers state to file a Form 20 or file a 14b then go to a judge for a full motion.
              The progressive escalation of the ask puts the other party in a worse light and helps with costs is my guess.

              There may also be legal reasons for doing it.

              Right now motion time is at a premium and they don't like their time wasted and by doing those initial light escalation steps first by the time it gets person to person in front of a judge that judge will be extra unhappy.

              Comment


              • #8
                Her motion is to update child support with the dates of time included. He will be ordered to provide disclosure if he does not in his response. She doesn't need to add unnecessary documents and extra reading for the judge. Short and to the point with only the necessary forms.

                As for motion time, that is up to the court and if they are going to waste time on stupid motions that is their decision.

                Like I've said before, seeing as you don't even know what goes in an affidavit, maybe you should stop repeatedly posting in threads with unnecessary and incorrect information.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by noteasy View Post
                  Lawyers state to file a Form 20
                  You quote this "lawyer" a lot; wrong here as well. Form 20 does not, would not be filed. It's really not for this purpose and is the same as simply sending an email request - you wouldn't file that and yet they both have equal value.

                  OP needs to file the mtc asap. It could be a simple urgent motion if there's financial hardship, debt collectors, can't pay bills... otherwise it's the full mtc, cc, then motion. People usually settle so push fast and hard for the need of a motion/trial. Ordering to start paying again is easier, most likely at cc (~4months); updating the proper amounts would need a motion at least.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Rockscan, please stop with the argumentative fallacies.
                    I have direct recent experience on this and since you seem to live an breath here you should know that orders for disclosure of often ignored and these things end up in front of a judge.
                    The poster has stated their ex has been a bad player not only with disclosure but with child support. They will not go easy.

                    Originally posted by StillPaying View Post

                    You quote this "lawyer" a lot; wrong here as well. Form 20 does not, would not be filed. It's really not for this purpose and is the same as simply sending an email request - you wouldn't file that and yet they both have equal value.

                    Correct, I misspoke about them being filed but the form has weight. There is a reason it exists, my recommendation is to use it because it worked for me in furthering my case.
                    While it is true a correctly worded email with the correct passages are just as good it is better form (excuse the pun) to use the form.
                    Last edited by noteasy; 05-25-2023, 09:44 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by noteasy View Post
                      There is a reason it exists, my recommendation is to use it because it worked for me
                      This is obviously your method as you're wrong , really wrong most of the time. There is a reason, a great one, and it's not disclosure requests. If you studied more, you'd say less outrageous things. If you want to use it for disclosure, it's the same weight as the hotmail request attached to your affidavit.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by StillPaying View Post

                        This is obviously your method as you're wrong , really wrong most of the time. There is a reason, a great one, and it's not disclosure requests. If you studied more, you'd say less outrageous things. If you want to use it for disclosure, it's the same weight as the hotmail request attached to your affidavit.
                        I dunno, the Form 20 title is "Request For Disclosure"

                        Please give more than "there is a great reason" but I won't tell you (it is a secret)

                        Why not check out this thread to improve, give it a good read at:
                        https://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/...iness-ventures

                        and it was either Kinso or Tayken that posted elsewhere a particular reference/legal statement that should go in that email as well so yeah, you can make the email have the same content as the Form 20 that works but saying "just send me your disclosure" seems not to be the thing. Hence the existence of the Form 20. Same thing with other forms etc.....just write up your own, all good.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by noteasy View Post
                          Rockscan, please stop with the argumentative fallacies.
                          You're arguing incorrect info so you should stop.

                          I have direct recent experience on this and since you seem to live an breath here you should know that orders for disclosure of often ignored and these things end up in front of a judge.
                          You don't know what goes in an affidavit and continue to say you don't know in other posts so I'm going to go with your experience is probably misinterpreted.

                          I have experience where a motion was filed with full disclosure included as a requirement AND a form 20 filed with the opposing party (who filed the form 20) losing and paying significant costs.

                          The poster has stated their ex has been a bad player not only with disclosure but with child support. They will not go easy.
                          Being a jerk doesn't mean anything. OP files a motion and the ex is subject to the judge. End of story.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by rockscan View Post
                            You're arguing incorrect info so you should stop.
                            You don't know what goes in an affidavit and continue to say you don't know in other posts so I'm going to go with your experience is probably misinterpreted.
                            I admit when I am not certain. It doesn't mean I am weak on intelligence, just the opposite. I know what I don't know, a feature several prominent posters don't have.

                            I also think you and I have different understanding of was "argumentative fallacies" are.
                            Here is an example of what you do did, something I could do over and over again but it would be wrong to do so: "Rockscan you were really wrong here and there and therefore you are wrong on this unrelated item."

                            Originally posted by rockscan View Post
                            I have experience where a motion was filed with full disclosure included as a requirement AND a form 20 filed with the opposing party (who filed the form 20) losing and paying significant costs.
                            Too vague for me to comment properly. No information on what the motion was for or who the moving party was.


                            I had already got an order for the disclosure via a 14b after sending the form 20, the other side ignored it.
                            When I won my disclosure in front of a judge for the items that the OP is seeking the judge admonished the other party citing my previous attempts to obtain disclosure.
                            The judge thought it was relevant. What is the harm of sending the Form 20?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by StillPaying View Post

                              This is obviously your method as you're wrong , really wrong most of the time. There is a reason, a great one, and it's not disclosure requests. If you studied more, you'd say less outrageous things. If you want to use it for disclosure, it's the same weight as the hotmail request attached to your affidavit.
                              From my experience Form 20 has much higher chance getting a response than a plain email. In theory it of course shouldn’t matter and disclosure should be provided based on the Rules, but somehow lawyers often ignore emails, yet answer the form 20.

                              Comment

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