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Consequences of publicly posting legal details

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  • #1
    It's a privacy issue. Even on canlii they don't post all cases and they don't always use full names.

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    • #2
      Originally posted by Bogdan View Post
      So what would happen ? Say if I posted all my (and ex's) affidavits in full ... removing only super sensitive kid stuff , put leaving everything else including names. It's technically illegal ..
      You would have to get her permission. It's an infringement on her privacy.

      Comment


      • #3
        It wouldn't be in family court. I believe it's criminal.

        Why do you want to do this anyway? Let it go. Your case is done and you have 50:50. Why continue the ongoing drama? Move on and enjoy your life. Hanging onto this is useless.

        Comment


        • #4
          People SHOULD talk to a lawyer and unless they understand fully the system and how to manage things. Some litigants believe they can self rep but end up failing to fully grasp things and just making it worse. Plus there are so many people who believe lawyers are bad that they don't work on finding someone good.

          Looking at someone else's paperwork doesn't always help with another's success. The best bet is for people to understand the system, their rights and temper their feelings.

          Comment


          • #5
            Easy!

            You asked what the consequences are for posting information online. You are basically sharing private details about your ex and your child. This breaks privacy laws and could be criminal. People here aren't going to know the answer so you may want to search out breach of privacy as well as slander/defamation. The amount of forms that are required just to use photos online for various organizations is an example I know of on privacy, I can't imagine what it's like for legal documents.

            You also make the assumption that because you were successful your forms are right. I have seen different documents from different posters here from courts in Alberta and throughout Ontario and they are all different. Not to mention some of the judges in the various cases didn't read everything and that could happen to others. Which means even great documents don't work.

            Let people ask for stuff and share it privately to reduce any impact. Unless you're interested in another court battle.

            Comment


            • #6
              Originally posted by rockscan View Post

              You would have to get her permission. It's an infringement on her privacy.
              Incorrect.

              Anything filed in the Public Court system is a matter of public record and can be relied upon and even pulled by anyone. I pull many cases down and read the full files. You have to go to the specific court house to do it but, I have ordered even old records and gone and read the whole file. If you want to copy them you can too.

              William Eddy as a great court... If you don't want your information to be public don't go to the public court system to get your problem solved.

              Even the court files where they have redacted names... You can go to the court house and pull those files. It has a notice that you are not to publish the information but, its usually all there. In fact, CanLII often relates unredacted cases to redacted cases and you get to know the full names. I report these bugs when I find them though as they should redact the names on the public imprint. They just do that because of the "reach" of the information.

              Each province has different laws. Quebec is a pain in the ass.

              The whole concept of jurisprudence operates on the fact that the court is open, public and fair. The reason some things don't get posted to CanLII as they are not relevant to the course of law. Meaning they are basic orders for which really don't shape jurisprudence. Only relevant matters are posted that may impact other cases etc...

              You go to the public court house to solve a problem... your matter is part of the public record.

              You can post it so long as it doesn't have a specific directive to not be posted at all. Very very rare and near impossible to get it put on a case. For example, if you search on this forum WorkingDad posted orders and even affidavits from the other parent on this forum. An affidavit is a sworn statement made in public and can be posted publicly.

              The other parent tried to stop him in court and requested that he stop. Court turned down the claim and basically attested that he was simply crowd sourcing legal help from the community and that he was not violating the law by posting public materials on public forums.
              Last edited by Tayken; 10-25-2022, 09:39 AM.

              Comment


              • #7
                Originally posted by Bogdan View Post
                Curious about peoples thoughts on this ..

                Assuming 50/50 .. and not EOW (where you need to walk on eggshells).

                What would be the consequences for publicly sharing / discussing the details of your family court case -- i.e. under real name, real ex's name .. and with reference to real judges / lawyers etc.
                It is a waste of time. It is legal to do but, you are just inviting more conflict in your sensitive situation. I wouldn't advise doing it even if it is legal. Most judges won't see the value in what you want to do and put in a gag order. They will possibly see it as a continuance of conflict. If you want to help people you can get a ghost writer to write an article if your case is unique. Just provide them the court file number and they can go pull it all and write an article if there is a good reason to.

                But, often many people, possibly including yourself, think that your case or your "win" as monumental. In fact, it probably isn't. Its probably full of stuff that really bothered you but, isn't unique to the overall court experience... sad to say...

                What you need to do is focus on being a parent. Your order is marked FINAL and you probably need to move on. Publishing the material isn't going to benefit your matter. It isn't going to make the other bad behaving parent behave better. In fact, it is only going to prolong the terrible parenting experience.

                I work with many "families in conflict". 9 times out of 10 they give up after the final order and move on. Things are not perfect for them but, normalize. Some even end up being supportive. Especially when kids hit about 9-10 years old... Often the kids will show their parents how they want to be parented and... that is without petty conflict.

                Originally posted by Bogdan View Post
                Similar in a way to Canli ... expect sharing private court details (i.e. med/arb etc).
                There is no such thing as "private court" in Canada. All court systems are a matter of public record and public disclosure. The only private thing is binding arbitration and mediation and those are usually governed by a contract to insure privacy to the parties. Usually the parties engaging in private binding arbitration or mediation use these services to insure their privacy. You walk into the public court house and your whole file from beginning to end is "open kimono".

                Just look at all the politicians who have had their divorce proceedings in the public court system used by journalists. Public Safety Minister Vic Toews’ 2010 divorce proceedings were published in articles. https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/should-p...ebate-1.780265

                Originally posted by Bogdan View Post
                Or even a open discussion of what happened in your case on YouTube ... kind of like the DSD (Dad Surviving Divorce) Channel.

                If would not be defamation / opinions / bad mouthing etc ... but matter of fact / evidence based (i.e. affidavit style) break-down of events.

                This would also not include any sensitive kid information.

                --

                I will say that with the private court route -- it's great if you're the crazy / unreasonable party , as details will never be made officially public.
                You mean Private Binding Arbitration or Mediation ("private court route")? Court is public. Its hard to understand if your matter was settled in Binding Arbitration or Mediation. Both of which the contract with the service provider often details the "privacy" of your information. If you went to SCJ or OCJ send me a PM with your court house location and your case file and I will have a service provider go and make a full copy of your file. I can then can write an article detailing anything of relevance and publish it here on this forum.

                But, usually, I end up spending hundreds to find out the file is the same as all the others and nothing really of value that hasn't already been published 1000 times over. Doubt your case is "unique". If it was it would be posted to CanLII and have been cited 39+ times like WorkingDad's cases:

                https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/do...1onsc6451.html

                The fact that your stuff Bogdan didn't get posted to CanLII suggests your file is of no material value to the operation of our public court system and that there are more than enough examples in CanLII already.

                Comment


                • #8
                  Originally posted by rockscan View Post
                  Easy!

                  You asked what the consequences are for posting information online. You are basically sharing private details about your ex and your child. This breaks privacy laws and could be criminal. People here aren't going to know the answer so you may want to search out breach of privacy as well as slander/defamation. The amount of forms that are required just to use photos online for various organizations is an example I know of on privacy, I can't imagine what it's like for legal documents.

                  You also make the assumption that because you were successful your forms are right. I have seen different documents from different posters here from courts in Alberta and throughout Ontario and they are all different. Not to mention some of the judges in the various cases didn't read everything and that could happen to others. Which means even great documents don't work.

                  Let people ask for stuff and share it privately to reduce any impact. Unless you're interested in another court battle.
                  Very wrong. In fact, should be removed. Public courts are public record. See my links in my post. Rockscan I implore you to correct this miss information if you can.

                  Comment


                  • #9
                    Originally posted by Tayken View Post

                    Very wrong. In fact, should be removed. Public courts are public record. See my links in my post. Rockscan I implore you to correct this miss information if you can.
                    Depends on what he's posting and where. I wouldn't want to risk an issue if he crosses the line on stuff. Posting an affidavit that is public is one thing. Posting other private info somewhere like YouTube COULD pose a problem.

                    Note I also said he should speak to an expert.

                    Careful with telling people to move on Tayken, I get vilified for saying it!

                    Comment


                    • #10
                      The issue that Tayken correctly identified- is that the OP's case probably isn't even that special. And what worked for your particular case is purely anecdotal. So to be brutally honest- your content probably wouldn't be that helpful.

                      The reason you get a lawyer in the first place is because their experience is supposed to be more varied- and they actually studied statutory interpretation and in some cases- persuasive writing. Can you do it yourself? Yes- but do know that most people really grossly overestimate their ability to do so. I know a handful of lawyers that have been through contentious divorces (including yours truly); some of them have years - like 15+ - of litigation experience- so they know how to write a persuasive affidavit. But you know how many I know that self-repped through their divorce? Zero.

                      Comment


                      • #11
                        Originally posted by Brampton33 View Post
                        No it doesn't. Posting on YouTube, provided what is said is factual, is no different whatsoever. You said he was not permitted and it was criminal. That is grossly incorrect. There are 2 possible outcomes if his ex gets a hold of his postings:
                        1- She tries to claim defamation and pulls an Amber Heard. But again, meaningless if the posts are factual.
                        2- She can try to claim that he is high conflict in future pleadings. But again, meaningless if posts are factual. All he is trying to do is create a resource centre.
                        What I said:
                        It's a privacy issue.
                        You would have to get her permission. It's an infringement on her privacy.
                        I believe it's criminal.​
                        COULD be criminal
                        Depends on what he's posting and where. I wouldn't want to risk an issue if he crosses the line on stuff. Posting an affidavit that is public is one thing. Posting other private info somewhere like YouTube COULD pose a problem.
                        Turns out he went through mediation and there may very well be some sort of blanket cover on what he can and can't post online. I wouldn't want to risk it.

                        See my above post....simply saying "move on" is not helpful when people are searching for answers after being in the trenches. Unless you have actually been in the trenches yourself, fighting for your own children, it is not appropriate to comment as you clearly cannot relate. And no, we are not necessarily "angry" or "bitter" men. If the shoe was on the other foot, where the dad withheld kids and said "you cannot see kids and see you in court"...it would be a different story told. The system is wrought with double standards.
                        You're right, I don't have kids. But I am the kid of two parents who wouldn't let it go and move on with their life. So yes I did live in a toxic divorce and custody battle that continued for 25 years. Do you know what it's like to be raised by a parent who can't get over shit? I do. Imagine being 20 years old, standing with your mother at the court house where she told my sister and I to find a new place to live because we told her the matter was over and she needed to stop. Or trying to reconnect with your father who is still angry at things and refuses to take responsibility sitting at lunch with him bitching about how much of his OAS was garnished before my mom died failing to get that my siblings and I went into about $100,000 debt putting ourselves through school and pay for home repairs because he abandoned us. My personal favourite was the time they both got up at one of our weddings making veiled attacks at each other in their speeches embarrassing us all in a room full of 150 people. No I didn't fight for kids but I did live with parents who refused to move on and I spent many years in therapy trying to deal with that toxic behaviour. Bogdan's son is already living with one parent (his mother) who is clearly a selfish asshole who will never let shit go. He needs one parent who has moved on and can focus on being a parent rather than a former litigant. Just like you need to be the parent your kids need you to be who isn't being a petty asshole like your ex. Deal with your anger, sadness, disappointment, frustration with a therapist not on the internet, social media, with others, your kids or strangers. There's an old adage: holding onto anger is like swallowing poison and hoping the other person will die. And I do say this to my husband who DID fight for his kids and was very angry the first couple of years afterwards. Like you, he told me the same thing, I don't know what it's like, I can't comment, don't tell him to move on. He wanted the last word, he wanted to share information, he even wanted to go pee on his ex-in laws graves! He "got over it" and "moved on" knowing living well is the best revenge. He has his moments now and then when he gets frustrated that his kids still hang on to their anger. I remind him that there is no benefit to reliving it, being angry over it and/or bitching about it.

                        Comment


                        • #12
                          Originally posted by Bogdan View Post

                          Agreed .. not monumental in any sense. My matter was very cookie-cutter, a conclusion that I only reached from private side conversations with other dads going through the high conflict (BPD/NPD) moms as well.

                          I agree, there is zero upside to writing an anger filled "F U" website to my ex, and that's certainly not what I'm considering.

                          I've long since moved on from my Ex (contrary to what Rockscan might thing) .. but figuring out the family court legal space has become a little side hobby of mine that I'm genuinely interested in.

                          If anything I place more blame on the legal system, the fuel that it adds to the fire with it's adversarial approach, and the artificial barriers-to-entry that it places including on self-repping (including gaps in publicly available information).

                          Gaps that have given me some (misguided? temporary?) feelings of wanting to pay-it-forward a bit.

                          Maybe I'll write a positive book/blog of my story (anonymous or not) and all the little things I picked up along the way that lawyers never seem to tell you, and are VERY deeply hidden on forums such as this.
                          I have always wondered if it's a matter of lobbying the right politicians/parties on this matter. A long long time ago I was a member of a party that developed policy and put it forward for consideration at a policy convention for that party--which is where a lot of legislation comes from. That little piece of policy allowed same sex couples to marry. Truly the family court needs to look at custody differently and it's a matter of getting it to the right person who can make the decision. You may want to have a conversation with your local MP or MPP (I think the legislation is federal) and seeing where to put your energies. I firmly believe that there needs to be conversations with politicians about making legislative changes. This is how MAiD came into law, how legalizing pot came into law, how same sex marriage came into law etc. I just think that not enough people are making the case for changing legislation about custody. Maybe I'll reach out to my local MP office since I've become friends with them on other work....

                          Comment


                          • #13
                            Originally posted by Bogdan View Post

                            Ex doesn't get to me like she used to. I've moved on. She had a messed up up-bringing (including abandonment issues, not knowing her bio-mom is etc) .. in a way I do kind of feel bad for her.

                            The more I read about people like that (BPD), they are in a CONSTANT state of internal turmoil.

                            There is no feeling of wanting to get "back at her".

                            There frustration from all these little things that I've been picking up on (credit includes this forum, and dad's I've talked to one-on-one) .. that lawyers never explained to me like : Right of First Refusal is a waste of time for High Conflict, Cost are a complete joke (so adjust litigation accordingly), and writing your own affidavits (with lawyer input as needed) is easier than you think.

                            I'm tired of the "just talk to a lawyer" trope ... when I would argue they are half the problem.
                            People should still speak to a lawyer (or more than one lawyer) and also temper their expectations. A friend of mine was looking to divorce and was adamant she would get full custody and went on about she would bankrupt herself to keep her kids. She spoke to six lawyers who told her the same thing I did. I also told her to focus on what she would accept and let the rest go. We went a week without speaking after that.

                            The biggest problem is emotion gets in the way and clouds judgement. The length of time the court process takes doesn't help either. And the people who need a swift kick in the ass don't normally listen. There are some really good lawyers out there. My husband's lawyer was straight with us. He will not represent if there was any indication my husband would be difficult. He was also straight about what he could and couldnt do and what the court would decide. (There was even a moment when he was wrong about costs and was shocked when he won a significant award innour favour but we didn't hold that against him). My husband got very angry several times when his lawyer wouldn't fight like he wanted to. I had to talk him down a few times and remind him what he was entitled to. Imagine others who don't have that and tell their lawyers to do shit they shouldnt. I am sure some of these “bad” lawyers are the ones who gave up trying to manage their clients and simply followed orders and billed them for it. Hell, imagine what trueblue's lawyer is doing since she won't file financial disclosure!!!

                            Comment


                            • #14
                              Originally posted by Bogdan View Post
                              He also wrote a book called "Courts From Hell - Family Injustice in Canada" .. which really brings me back to my original question, what would happen if I write something like this under my real name -- though instead of jab at the system more of a collection of my personal notes / anecdotes that I've collected from people (and this forum) and my experiences.
                              I'll go against the grain and say that posting that stuff is useful. Not as a vengence, but as a spotlight to what (mostly) a joke family court is in Ontario, and likely the rest of Canada. DSD on youtube was great, theproperperson is another one. THey helped me quite a bit, but maybe it's just a case of "misery loves company".

                              Comment


                              • #15
                                Originally posted by Bogdan View Post
                                I went the Med/Arb route, hence not on Canli. Other than mediation being closed-door -- i.e. I understand that I can't use anything directly from that session -- specifically my ex's completely fictitious material.
                                If you went through med-arb process then the publishing of any materials used in that matter are governed by the four walls of the contract between the med-arb, lawyers and both parties to the matter. I have never seen a med-arb contract that doesn't make everything private. That is why 99% of rich people use med-arb just to be frank.

                                Originally posted by Bogdan View Post
                                My understanding so far of things that are not allowed (to be revealed in public):
                                - direct material from closed-door mediation .. though actual evidence would still be allowed
                                - sensitive information -- address / kid information / medical / etc
                                - actual defamation
                                - anything with an gag-order or specific clause saying it's private record .. (note this is explicit and not implicit)
                                As you have been through med-arb and don't understand the boundaries of your contract, as demonstrated by your questions, the best advice ANYONE can give you is to KEEP ALL MATTERS PRIVATE as you could find yourself in violation of the agreement you signed. The next advice would be for you to talk to a LAWYER before you act out by publishing information.

                                Originally posted by Bogdan View Post
                                Tayken .. are you saying that with Public Court ALL relevant information is available (though not via Canli) .. i.e. including filed affidavits ? it's just kind of hidden a bit / and you need a "service provider" ?
                                Google can answer 99% of your questions:

                                https://www.separation.ca/help-centr...ecords%20publi c,public's%20access%20to%20court%20files.

                                All Canadian provinces, except for Quebec, presume that all civil and family litigation matters are public. There is a very high bar for restricting the public’s access to court files. However, section 137(2) of the Courts of Justice Act, allows a party to make an application to the court to seal the court file.
                                Read that article.​

                                Originally posted by Bogdan View Post
                                It was a source of frustration for me .. that I had almost no access to sample family court affidavits to piece together what needed to be done. I had to spend $$ on my lawyer to figure out how he's doing it (by his examples) .. to only then realize it's not really that complicated (it's really kind of just copy-writing).
                                You had a greedy lawyer. Most lawyers will tell you to go to your local court house. Walk into the court house. There are listings of all the cases being heard that day. Go to anything relevant and sit in. After the matter is done. You can take the case number and view the file at the clerks. This is a fast track way to do it as the records are pulled and active. So a clerk usually only has one place to check. When they ask you why you need to see it just tell them you are doing research. You need to be a citizen though I believe to see the materials.

                                Comment

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