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  • mafia007
    replied
    Originally posted by rockscan View Post
    Keep us posted. From what my husband was told, there is nothing that can be done and teens are hard to force into anything. You may get an order for reunification therapy but even that may not work. There was a case of a 16yo boy who committed suicide after a court order to attend therapy and parenting time with the alienated parent was increased.

    It is really terrible. My husband has been contemplating sending his kids an invitation to visit over the holidays. I have to keep tempering his expectations while also worrying about the asshole responses (if they respond) he will get. Both kids are in their 20s but are horribly self entitled and obnoxious. Being home and isolated with their mother over the pandemic has not helped. I am sure their attitude about how their mother is a victim has only been strengthened. Plus he�s still paying child support for a kid he hasn�t spoken to in six years.
    I've been following your posts for years rockscan and forces is to admit that I am now in a similar situation than your husban. I don't know if the court is going to do anything for PA but at the same time, I am sending a message to the court. If it's ok for her to behave in a way of not following the order without consequences, of not providing me with important health and education info about the girls, of not cooperating with the review of CS when exchanging annual financial divulgation, etc... well i just won't cooperate anymore.

    If the court states that it is in the best interest of the children to move forward without the presence of their father, then it must be applied in every fields. I will no longer be following any garbage orders like this and I will play ignorant. Instead of initiating actions, I'll let the other party file motions to show her how fun and very productive it is to be the one seeking info. On my side, I will play the game she's been playing for years which is being ignorant, lying all the time and saying that it was a misunderstanding from my part... sorry!

    I will keep you posted for sure. Might start a new thread if I have to as I've been away for a long time.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kkc
    replied
    Be vey careful about recording. It generally does not look well.

    Doing it for your own protection, if you can validate the necessity is one thing. Always have it concealed or if you have external cameras.

    There is nothing illegal about that. If you leave a recording device in a room to record her private conversation..that is illegal.

    If recordings are to be used in court, it has to have a very high probative value.

    Leave a comment:


  • rockscan
    replied
    Originally posted by pinkHouses View Post
    Mafia007 can only get money from this, the kids are not coming back by force.
    The ex isn't about to fess up and say she lied to the kids.

    I don't know what I would do. Have the ex pay me rent and sell later or force the sale of the house to get the cash. Probably the former.

    Think ahead and record your ex while they are not your ex. Even normal conversations, it could make a big difference outside of court if the ex tries to pull this crap of false accusations. Kids will turn on a lying parent pretty darn quick.

    Not sure what you are talking about. There is no money involved in mafias case. The ex already paid him his share. Now its simply alienation.

    Leave a comment:


  • pinkHouses
    replied
    Mafia007 can only get money from this, the kids are not coming back by force.
    The ex isn't about to fess up and say she lied to the kids.

    I don't know what I would do. Have the ex pay me rent and sell later or force the sale of the house to get the cash. Probably the former.

    Think ahead and record your ex while they are not your ex. Even normal conversations, it could make a big difference outside of court if the ex tries to pull this crap of false accusations. Kids will turn on a lying parent pretty darn quick.

    Leave a comment:


  • rockscan
    replied
    Originally posted by mafia007 View Post
    My oldest daughter had cut all contacts with me since 2016. Then I lost contact with my youngest daughter and son in 2018. All was related to the fact that I wanted my share of the property vs the mother telling the children that I was throwing them in the street with no remorse. From 2016 to 2019, after loosing at trial and then at an Appeal, my ex had to finally make the payment and I received a lot of signs from my oldest daughter showing that she was very angry at me and at the same time, very loyal to her mother.

    Lately, as we are awaiting trial for parental alienation for D14, my oldest daughter now 19 decided to Unblock me from her FaceBook to comment on my posts and send me numerous text messages. She speaks for her siblings saying that they don't want anything with me, that D14 is afraid, I'm immature, hypocrite, I'm enoying with my requests to see them, to move on with my life and leave them alone, she calls me by my first name (don't call me dad anymore), she doesn't need me and my support, everything is OK since i'm gone, it's wonderful with mom. She post Tik Tok saying that I was toxic, abusive, and I'm the one apparently who had cheated (when it's realy mother but was never discussed with any of my kids) and that she was DONE with me.

    All this... with of course the evidence we have filed at court is parental alienation. And if mother can prove she did not alienate, then it's clearly a sign that my daughter has voluntarily repudiated her relationship with me with no apparent and legitimate reasons. It could be or not for both reasons though.

    Keep us posted. From what my husband was told, there is nothing that can be done and teens are hard to force into anything. You may get an order for reunification therapy but even that may not work. There was a case of a 16yo boy who committed suicide after a court order to attend therapy and parenting time with the alienated parent was increased.

    It is really terrible. My husband has been contemplating sending his kids an invitation to visit over the holidays. I have to keep tempering his expectations while also worrying about the asshole responses (if they respond) he will get. Both kids are in their 20s but are horribly self entitled and obnoxious. Being home and isolated with their mother over the pandemic has not helped. I am sure their attitude about how their mother is a victim has only been strengthened. Plus hes still paying child support for a kid he hasnt spoken to in six years.

    Leave a comment:


  • mafia007
    replied
    Originally posted by rockscan View Post

    Alienation is the systemic destruction of a relationship until there is nothing but abusive behaviour. Think no interaction at all except for the kid telling their parent they hate them and want nothing to do with them. There was a really good book I read several years ago �A Family�s Heartbreak� and I highly recommend it.

    I also speak from my own experience as an alienated kid. What you have is not alienation.
    My oldest daughter had cut all contacts with me since 2016. Then I lost contact with my youngest daughter and son in 2018. All was related to the fact that I wanted my share of the property vs the mother telling the children that I was throwing them in the street with no remorse. From 2016 to 2019, after loosing at trial and then at an Appeal, my ex had to finally make the payment and I received a lot of signs from my oldest daughter showing that she was very angry at me and at the same time, very loyal to her mother.

    Lately, as we are awaiting trial for parental alienation for D14, my oldest daughter now 19 decided to Unblock me from her FaceBook to comment on my posts and send me numerous text messages. She speaks for her siblings saying that they don't want anything with me, that D14 is afraid, I'm immature, hypocrite, I'm enoying with my requests to see them, to move on with my life and leave them alone, she calls me by my first name (don't call me dad anymore), she doesn't need me and my support, everything is OK since i'm gone, it's wonderful with mom. She post Tik Tok saying that I was toxic, abusive, and I'm the one apparently who had cheated (when it's realy mother but was never discussed with any of my kids) and that she was DONE with me.

    All this... with of course the evidence we have filed at court is parental alienation. And if mother can prove she did not alienate, then it's clearly a sign that my daughter has voluntarily repudiated her relationship with me with no apparent and legitimate reasons. It could be or not for both reasons though.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kkc
    replied
    a good thing to look at is the fielding list, it is 17 points

    Keep in mind each and every point you would need specific examples

    One of them is cutting off communication...in my case my phone number was blocked on my 5 year olds iPad so I could not call him, i would create a new apple ID and it would magically work, then that new number stopped working, and I created a new one, and so on. When i texted her to not do that, she simply wrote don't tell me what to do with MY devices. When I ask when medical appointments are, I am told to call her lawyer. This is called gatekeeping behavior.

    My young kids know about court proceedings, she would villify me in front of the kids (ie your dad is trying to put me in jail, your dad will retaliate against me)

    My 9 year old daughter used to be glued at the hip to my mom, and shortly after bringing contempt proceedings against the ex, that relationship deteriorated..my daughter won't even hug her brother if his clothes are things my mom bought. She also is using her mom's maiden name..it's shit like that


    Teenagers yes it is much harder unfortunately because they have more capacity than young children, the best course there is doing some form of reconciliation therapy and hopefully the ex will be supportive of it.

    Leave a comment:


  • rockscan
    replied
    Originally posted by Diverged View Post
    I take that response as being alienation is hard to prove.

    It is hard to prove but people mix up not seeing their kids with alienation. From what you have described, its simply bad kids and bad parenting. When you give teenagers power, theyre going to use.

    Alienation is the systemic destruction of a relationship until there is nothing but abusive behaviour. Think no interaction at all except for the kid telling their parent they hate them and want nothing to do with them. There was a really good book I read several years ago A Familys Heartbreak and I highly recommend it.

    Its also important to note that if you are trying to show alienation to stop paying support it wont fly. Judges dont cut off support unless it is extreme. My husbands child hasnt spoken to him in 7 years. He wanted to cut off support and expenses and a judge told him he had to work on the relationship but no dice on quitting support. He is still paying it despite his kid telling him emphatically a few years ago she did not consider him her parent.

    I also speak from my own experience as an alienated kid. What you have is not alienation.

    Leave a comment:


  • Diverged
    replied
    I take that response as being alienation is hard to prove.

    Leave a comment:


  • rockscan
    replied
    Contested divorce taking forever

    Originally posted by Diverged View Post
    Kind of off topic from my thread but I'd be interested in knowing people's thoughts on alienation and the court system.

    Do a search. Its been discussed.


    Also, its not alienation. Its bad kids. Your partner should have filed a motion to bring the kids back.
    Last edited by rockscan; 11-04-2021, 07:15 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Diverged
    replied
    Kind of off topic from my thread but I'd be interested in knowing people's thoughts on alienation and the court system.

    Leave a comment:


  • Diverged
    replied
    He'll get the back support paid and hopefully this will get that ball rolling and divorce finalized.

    Regarding the alienation, there has actually been quite a bit on her part. She's made ongoing disparaging remarks about their dad through the years, moved out of the city purposefully and has tried to turn the kids against their father through various means. For example she certainly doesn't encourage their relationship at all and speaks negatively about him frequently. And the most recent the kid has started to run away and they call their mother an hour away and she comes to pick them up. She enables this.

    I know alienation isn't mentioned much at all on here, and I'm guessing it's darn near impossible to prove in court.

    My partners kids screamed at us the other night and their mom drove to pick them up, on their dads custody time. They no longer want to come here and I'm positive it's because their mom has alienated them against us and our house here... But I think that's impossible to prove in court.

    Leave a comment:


  • rockscan
    replied
    Originally posted by Diverged View Post
    So my partners lawyer had responded to his exs lawyer that he agreed and will put the lump sum back support payment into an RESP for the kids and he also said should the kids not go to college the money goes directly back to my partner. (I don't think my partner told him to word it this way...). I think, unlike my lawyer his lawyer just responds how he sees fit without letting my partner know what he'll be saying to them. Well my partner received a quite snarky reply back from their lawyer which said they don't agree to that at all and that their offer of the RESP payment is off the table all together and they now just want the money. I guess that's all fine and dandy.. But my partner still doesn't have his divorce signed... After over 2 years after having served her with divorce papers...
    So pay the back support. He owes it and should pay it.

    On top of this his kids 15/16 have cut off contact with him recently for some reasons, alienation, they don't like that we have rules here and they run wild at their mothers with no rules or any kind of discipline. They have huge anger and behavioral issues. So he's paying full child support to a woman that ran off to a city over an hour away without his consent which altered their custody arrangement from 50 50 to EOWE..... And now his kids refuse to come to our house.
    Thats not alienation, its bad behaviour. Yes it sucks to have to pay support but the mechanism for that was when she moved. He should have filed an emergency motion.

    All of this is water under the bridge. He needs to pay what he owes and get it done. If she continues to pull shit then he needs to file a motion to get it done. All of this is on consent and if she wont agree then he needs a judge. No more letters or emails, a motion.

    Leave a comment:


  • Diverged
    replied
    So my partners lawyer had responded to his exs lawyer that he agreed and will put the lump sum back support payment into an RESP for the kids and he also said should the kids not go to college the money goes directly back to my partner. (I don't think my partner told him to word it this way...). I think, unlike my lawyer his lawyer just responds how he sees fit without letting my partner know what he'll be saying to them. Well my partner received a quite snarky reply back from their lawyer which said they don't agree to that at all and that their offer of the RESP payment is off the table all together and they now just want the money. I guess that's all fine and dandy.. But my partner still doesn't have his divorce signed... After over 2 years after having served her with divorce papers...

    On top of this his kids 15/16 have cut off contact with him recently for some reasons, alienation, they don't like that we have rules here and they run wild at their mothers with no rules or any kind of discipline. They have huge anger and behavioral issues. So he's paying full child support to a woman that ran off to a city over an hour away without his consent which altered their custody arrangement from 50 50 to EOWE..... And now his kids refuse to come to our house.

    Leave a comment:


  • rockscan
    replied
    I believe he can file a motion. Not sure which one but his lawyer should know. My husband had to do this as his ex wouldnt budge. The judge told her if she didnt finish the agreement the judge would order her to pay more than my husband had agreed to. She moved super quick after that.

    Leave a comment:

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