Drama never ends.

[Soiled]

Background up until today:

2013 - Divorced

Nov 2019 - Then 9 year old daughter starts seeing a psychologist for issues of self esteem and suicidal ideation.

Dec 2019 - Ex leaves the country for work for 8 months, children stay with me.

July 2020 - Ex returns, resumes usual 50/50 custody, week on, week off schedule.

Sep 2020 - Ex arbitrarily makes the decision to remove her consent for our daughter to see the psychologist.

Oct 2020 - Ex uses giving back consent for our daughter to see her psychologist as leverage to get me to see a counsellor with you. I agree'd, however when speaking with prospective counsellors when they heard why I was attending they backed out.

Mar 2021 - Attended docket court initiated by my Ex and her lawyer with an application for "Practice Note 7 Order - Therapeutic Intervention with Both Parents (post seperation/divorce counselling) or an order directing these parties to engage with a parenting coordinator. EICC scheduled for June

Apr 2021 - Received an email from the Ex's lawyer stating that there are signs of parental alienation occuring, that the kids view me as the fun/funny parent, and that the kids apparently made death threats towards their mother. They requested consent for the children to get 'psychological intervention'.

I responded that I was agreeable to our daughter returning to the same psychologist as before, and our son could go to the same place as well if they would take him on. I stated that if there was a reasonable objection to that we could see about another place. I then of course asked for details surrounding the circumstances of these threats, and stated that if the mother did not feel safe I would be more than happy to keep the children at my place until they've received counselling.

Email received back stated that parenting time would remain unchanged, and that a different psychologist would be used. No details were provided on the threats.

I responded requesting details again, nothing heard back again of course.
Yesterday I received an email directly from my Ex stating that she thinks our daughter is showing signs of depression, that this has gone on too long now, and she will be finding someone for her to talk to. I requested details through followup questions on that, and on the previous threats, nothing heard back.

This morning ex emails again stating she went to a hospital at some point the previous night with our daughter as she apparently needs help with her mental health, and they'll be calling her on Tuesday and she will let me know any details on that then.

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I've tried to talk to the kids about this stuff a little bit to get details on what is going on, without prying too much, or seem like I'm 'digging for dirt' on their mom. From the sounds of things the threats made were a joke made by my son (12) who now understands that it was in poor taste, and was not serious at all. He says he would say absolutely nothing if made to go to counselling and his mom has no sense of humor.

I saw my daughter this morning and asked her how her trip to the hospital was and why she went. Her response was that she had no idea why they were going there and didnt even know it was for her until she was in a room talking to someone (counsellor?) and she told them that her mom is always screaming at her, telling her she is being bad, and won't leave her alone or stay out of her room when asked. I made no comments on any of that, just gave her a hug and had her get ready to go to school.

Partially just writing this as a way of venting, as I'm getting extremely frustrated with the Ex, and her control games. I have no issues with the kids receiving counselling, though I do take issue with trickles of information being shared, or not shared, like this.
If anyone has any input as to how I may be being an idiot with my handling of things, or advice, it's welcome.

[rockscan]

It sounds like they are trying to “document” an imagined issue to claim alienation and make a move to remove the 50/50. I would send another written request on what happened at the hospital as well as request for proof of diagnosis/treatment from the doctor including discharge paperwork if provided. If they ask again for anything you reply that you will not be providing any further information until you receive proper documentation from the treating clinician or psychological provider.

Taking the kid to the hospital and then going dark with you doesn’t look good. Especially when the kids are old enough to speak their minds.

What is the June date for? Is it a conference or something else?


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[Soiled]

June date is for an 'Early Intervention Case Conference', for their attempt at forcing me to attend counselling with her, or a parenting coordinator.


The counselling is just her seeking allies, actually tried it with her back in 2013/2014 a couple of times and when things didn't go her way she dismissed them as a quack.


Parenting coordinator I have yet to see anything from them on what they expect it would accomplish, aside from this current spat there is nothing needing resolution. The costs on a parenting coordinator are obscene, otherwise I would consider it as the less I have to deal with her, the better things are.

[rockscan]

A parenting coordinator would not be able to force her to have kid attend counseling or stop her from pulling stunts. It would be a waste of time and money with this high conflict of an individual.


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[Stillbreathing]

Contact the hospital medical records department directly and request your children’s medical records for the date they were seen. You are a 50/50 parent, therefor, for a small fee they will send you the records. If the records show a referral for mental health counselling, request the children’s records from that department as well. Bypass your ex for information as they are being evasive and go right to the source ( hospitals, doctors, therapists, etc).

[Janus]

Apr 2021 - Received an email from the Ex's lawyer stating that there are signs of parental alienation occuring

Just a quick point that, as a general rule, you should never respond to allegations raised by an ex's lawyer outside of court documents.

There is no possible reply that helps your case, but many possible replies that hurt it.

Let the lawyer send their allegations, nobody cares.

[Soiled]

Looks as though Rockscan was correct in the goals here.

I was just CC'd by a new lawyers email to the Queens Bench filing a notice to attend docket court, for psychological care of the children, relocation, and a PN 8 assessment order.

According to the notice the kids have 'serious mental health issues including self harm and threatening to harm others'. Father is refusing to cooperate with recommended treatment for the children. Serious concerns about parenting requiring expert evidence. Mother wishes to relocate with the children to be closer to her family for support of the family and herself.

The mental health issues regarding self harm part just made me shake my head. She is the one who withdrew our daughter from her psychologist, refused to let her go back, and has yet to get her into a new one. Self harm hasn't occurred since mid 2019 if I remember correctly.

My apparent refusal to cooperate... There has been no recommended treatment proposed to my knowledge. The psychologist our daughter used to see suggested that the two of us seeing a counsellor may be helpful but that's it.

Parenting expert... Not sure what to think, but other than costs involved likely being obscene I can't see that going favorably for her.

Her wanting to relocate, from what I've seen and read, my understanding is that her reasons are pretty poor, especially considering the kids (12 and 10) have been where they are for 10 years, have family, siblings, school, friends, etc already where they are.

I'd love to read some opinions, advice, or corrections on my assumptions. So far I haven't heard anything about her dropping her original lawyer as her representation, or any changes to the case conference already scheduled.

[Soiled]

Offer to settle received now...

Parenting assessment to be conducted at an estimated cost of 30,000 split both parties

Allow mother to move with children to Quebec. They were gracious enough to offer to lower the child support due to the costs for me to visit the children.

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That's followed by a litigation plan, which has some oddities such as requesting financial disclosure of my wife, as well as questioning of her.

[arbortrail22]

What is the point of view around switching schools/community at 12 and 13? That is a very hard motion to win unless there is a major issue.

We had a relocation case- 30 km.. judge agreed to the parenting assessment paid 100% by the requesting parent. It was awful- multiple difficult interviews, in house visits, interviews with every doctor ever seen by the parents and kids, every teacher, medications of every parent, etc. Took 9-10 months.... plus another 5k for a written report.

This sucks for you and moreso your kids! The parenting assessor would bring them into the process. I wouldn't agree to involve your children unless ordered to....

[Soiled]

Thanks for the input Arbortrail. Very nice to read that the costs of the assessment had to be paid by the requestor. I hadn't had much chance to look into that aspect yet and had just assumed the costs would be split. I just finished looking through some cases on canlii searching for parenting assessment and mobility, and that seemed to be the trend in the couple I checked out so far.

I can't imagine how terrible the process is for children to undergo. At the same time though, I wonder if it might not be worthwhile, as it could be a wake up call for the ex when it doesn't turn out favorably for her as she probably imagines it would.

And yeah I agree that moving is a hard motion to win, especially as this is moving from Alberta to Quebec. She has family there that they've met a few times, but that's about it. Her only argument so far is that she and the kids would gain the support of her family by moving. They kids can speak maybe 50 words of French between the two of them, and the area she wants to go has very little English.

[rockscan]

Drama never ends.

I dont understand what they are filing when you have a case conference coming up. Did she file a motion to change a final agreement and the conference in June is due to that? Why on earth would she file a different matter?

If all she has is an er visit and some threats she is going to need much more. Clearly this is all motivated by her desire to move.

Do you have a lawyer?

[rockscan]

That's followed by a litigation plan, which has some oddities such as requesting financial disclosure of my wife, as well as questioning of her.

Your wife is not a party to the matter and if you aren’t claiming hardship, her income is irrelevant.

Sounds like a scare tactic to get you to agree.


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[Soiled]

I dont understand what they are filing when you have a case conference coming up. Did she file a motion to change a final agreement and the conference in June is due to that? Why on earth would she file a different matter?

If all she has is an er visit and some threats she is going to need much more. Clearly this is all motivated by her desire to move.

Do you have a lawyer?

Ah right I forgot to clarify that part. Along with the settlement offer, her lawyer was unaware of the conference in June, and has since withdrawn the new application for docket court. I imagine they'll try to dictate the conference into dealing with their increased goals now. Originally was just to deal with parents getting counseling or a parenting coordinator, and if there is time then they would look at child support.

Child support is due to when she left the country for work for 8 months, she refused to pay it. I requested it of her multiple times, but never pursued it in court to keep the peace as well as just not wanting the headaches. Since we are in court anyhow...

I'm speaking to a lawyer next week about a limited scope retainer. Spending years repaying debt from defending against her opportunism is something I'm hoping to avoid.

[rockscan]

Just remember a limited scope retainer includes increased hourly fees. You may want to ask a couple of lawyers what their fees are for LSR.

Like I previously said, it sounds like her ultimate goal is to move with the kids but has nothing but false allegations and ridiculous requests as her basis for requesting that. I would review cases on mobility as well as psychological concerns. Also prepare yourself to get reports from her trip to the ER and any other shit she claims.

Your ex is an idiot in my view but for some reason idiots get a lot of rope in the court process. Hopefully your conference has a judge who is brutally honest with her. Probably why she has a new lawyer.

[cleanSlate]

Here is my view on the assessment:

1) They are a total crap shoot. Her lawyer will try to pick a lawyer that is favorable to your ex's situation and her being a woman. Your lawyer would try to pick someone with a predetermined outcome too.

2) Your ex is manipulative as f**k. She will no doubt lie to the assessor and give them reason to rule for her.....fighting the assessment is expensive and draining and it is easy to get blindsided.

3) Assessors are definitely include some very dishonest and stupid people and do everything they can to cover their butt to keep themselves from being sued.


Parenting co-ordinator:
1) Again, your ex will work to manipulate them and no matter what they say about "I can't be manipulated" that is bull. Many are.
2) Your ex will hike up costs here but from what I know you can't be forced to have a parental co-ordinator.
3) The good thing is that if your ex is provably unreasonable and you have the PC on your side it can help.


From experience a PC with a manipulative and high-conflict ex isn't going to work so well.

Your ex is trying to engage you to find something, anything even if not true against you.

Avoid all phone conversations and limit all emails. Trust me it is cheaper than trying to reason with them.