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12 yr old choosing residence

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  • Ange71727
    replied
    A VOC is a Voice of the Child report. Mine was done through a private assessor (social worker). They interview the kids several times to try to ascertain their wishes as to the time sharing and schedule. The report will note other items too, like parental conflict, kidsí exposure to that conflict, and whether there is parental influence or pressure tactics being used. Costs quite a bit - $2000 at least. There is a disclosure meeting at the end and a written report. They assessor will usually testify for whichever parent requires it, but most of the time the matter will settle because the kids have made their wishes known. At least I am hoping thatís what will happen.


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  • cranberry
    replied
    Thanks, Ange. This information will help me prepare for what might happen. Do you know if VOC report is different from a private parenting assessment?

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  • Ange71727
    replied
    Originally posted by cranberry View Post
    How much weight is given to a 12 yr old wanting to live with the other parent?

    We had a private parenting assessment a few years ago, 2028-ish. Would another one be ordered? My ex requested and paid for it. We were both found equally wanting.

    Thanks!

    In my case, we had a VOC report done and final report last March (right before Covid). My kids are young teenagers. At TMC in January, we asked for an updated report based on the fact that a ton has transpired over the past year. The other side was vehemently opposed, but the judge agreed with me and endorsed it because, in his mind, a year makes a big difference, especially with teenagers. So the updated VOC is going ahead. Whether the trial judge puts weight on what theyíve said remains to be seen.


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  • vocalfather
    replied
    Originally posted by Tayken View Post
    But, your realization that you can't do it is very important as well. Many people have come here thinking they could do it and fail horribly and make their situation even worse.

    This is where lawyers are important. But, it becomes a very expensive ordeal. Imagine the challenge that WorkingDad had with the other parent having unlimited funds from Legal Aid Ontario.

    Now, since this case hit LAO doesn't blindly fund family law files. LAO has clipped the wings of many over-funded civil (family law) files.

    What Tayken shared is spot on. Sadly, Iíve been dragged back to court but LAO has not funded my X again. My X had to pushback to get the trial funded before and they arenít willing to go down that road again.


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  • Tayken
    replied
    Originally posted by cranberry View Post
    Thank you for the links to Working Dads ordeal. He's a hero for sure. Unfortunately, I cannot do what he did.
    But, your realization that you can't do it is very important as well. Many people have come here thinking they could do it and fail horribly and make their situation even worse.

    This is where lawyers are important. But, it becomes a very expensive ordeal. Imagine the challenge that WorkingDad had with the other parent having unlimited funds from Legal Aid Ontario.

    Now, since this case hit LAO doesn't blindly fund family law files. LAO has clipped the wings of many over-funded civil (family law) files.

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  • cranberry
    replied
    Thank you for the links to Working Dads ordeal. He's a hero for sure. Unfortunately, I cannot do what he did.

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  • Tayken
    replied
    Originally posted by Kkc View Post
    Wow this a powerhouse thread with these guys replying
    Sorry you feel this way.

    Originally posted by Kkc View Post
    Imagine an 8 year old being groomed to choose.
    Imagine a parent hiring competent legal counsel and following their advice and bringing the appropriate cogent and relevant evidence before the court and how fast the problem could be resolved.

    Originally posted by Kkc View Post
    I haven't had my daughter since Jan 16th despite supposed to Fri to Monday.
    So when has your lawyer scheduled the emergency motion for? You should be motioning for the return of the children in accordance with the agreement/order or to have a residency schedule put in place.

    Non action is going to get you nowhere. You should be moving this matter forward and you should have a good lawyer guiding you through this.

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  • Tayken
    replied
    Originally posted by cranberry View Post
    KKC -- I feel for you! My house is apparently ground zero for Covid! My kids were withheld when things went diwn the drain ladt year. Thankfully, when finally returned, they resigned themselves to following the schedule. But, in that time they have run away from me, refused to come out of their rooms, threw hard and soft objects at me, and one night absolutely destroyed the main level of our house. One forced the insude garage door so far in the wrong direction, he ripped the screws from the swing bar right out of the metal door! Its been a living hell.
    Hopefully you have proper legal counsel. If you do have a Section 30 (private assessor) you should be bringing a motion for an update to the report and for the assessor to meet with the children to provide a view to the court. Ultimately, you have every opportunity to bring the needed attention to your file and professionals but, it all costs money. Lots of it. A proper Section 30 assessment is around 80,000 and on top of that the legal costs are well over 130,000++ for a complex situation that you are describing.

    Unless you do what WorkingDad (a previous forum member) did and become one of the most competent unrepresented litigants to ever face the court.

    https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/do...1onsc6451.html

    https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/do...1onsc7476.html

    https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/do...14onsc915.html

    https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/do...5onsc3684.html

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  • Tayken
    replied
    Originally posted by cranberry View Post
    My ex asked for and was granted a private assessment which ran from fall 2018 - Spring 2019. Would another report from OCL be ordered after such a short timeframe?
    If you had a private assessment ordered by the court (in Ontario) that falls under Section 30 of the CLRA. Once you start down the private assessment path you will remain on it. The court may order an update to the Section 30 assessment but, who pays for it will need to be figured out etc. You would need to either agree on consent to the update to the private assessment or have a court order it.

    Hopefully you have a proper assessor that is qualified to do an assessment under Section 30.

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  • cranberry
    replied
    Rockscan -- they are in counseling. They have admitted they went to extreme behaviour hoping I would eventually give up and agree to let them live with their dad permanently. Keep telling them I am not going anywhere!

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  • rockscan
    replied
    Your kids need some counseling. Call your local family service about free sessions.


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  • cranberry
    replied
    KKC -- I feel for you! My house is apparently ground zero for Covid! My kids were withheld when things went diwn the drain ladt year. Thankfully, when finally returned, they resigned themselves to following the schedule. But, in that time they have run away from me, refused to come out of their rooms, threw hard and soft objects at me, and one night absolutely destroyed the main level of our house. One forced the insude garage door so far in the wrong direction, he ripped the screws from the swing bar right out of the metal door! Its been a living hell.

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  • cranberry
    replied
    Rockscan -- the three of us are in counseling regarding our situation. Our kids can quote quite a few clauses in our order, not due to me. Yesterday, after trying to explain we just don't know what a judge would say, he fired back at me, "You're just saying that cuz your lawyer told you that. I know I can decide on my birthday!" Ugh...facepalm!

    My ex asked for and was granted a private assessment which ran from fall 2018 - Spring 2019. Would another report from OCL be ordered after such a short timeframe?

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  • rockscan
    replied
    Kkc what happened with the CAS investigation? Do you have a new court date for your ongoing matter? Have you spoken with a psychologist or therapist?

    Cranberry, at 12 they wonít have a say and a judge will more than likely get OCL involved or look at the root of the matter more fully. You should also look into some therapy including some for yourself on how to manage the situation.


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  • Kkc
    replied
    Wow this a powerhouse thread with these guys replying


    Imagine an 8 year old being groomed to choose.

    I haven't had my daughter since Jan 16th despite supposed to Fri to Monday.
    My daughter own words...I have a wonderful mom and grandma and a terrible dad and one day you are going to realize how you treated me.

    ...poor girl

    I asked her yesterday while on FaceTime with my son if she wanted to go to New York for a weekend with me and she said why would I want to go anywhere with you

    I btrought her flowers and plushy for Valentine's day, she basically said these flowers r trash and kept trying to throw then out of the house

    I'm sure the fact that

    she is being told that I tried to get her grandma in jail

    The ex broadcasting my text message during a handover (basically asking her to help with the transition) through the car and when I came out saying "you need to be careful what you text because they heard it" while my daughter is chastising me

    Telling the kids my house isn't safe and she won't go near it

    ..all have nothing to do with it...I swear my address is area 51 bc I feel like an alien

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