Amend separation agreement question

[Alpinist]

Child support is now figured out as he is paying me the offset amount and this is correct. We went back and forth figuring out some other items for "finalizing our agreement", such as post secondary expenses for the children, life insurance update and vacation scheduling. We had our draft agreed upon with all the changes, he agreed to the changes but for 3 months has not reviewed with a lawyer. It just needed a signature. The amendments have all been updated and pasted in. Unless all of the sudden hes not ok with what we came up with. The idea was that we both sign and have it finalized.

Yes perhaps the back support, I should just request it as it's what should have been paid all along and it's standard handling

[pinkHouses]

Do I take him to court? Do I file a motion with the court? Do I request the back support owed? Do I sit around and wait for his reply?

I don't know what changes you had to the agreement.

If your concern is only for child support then fill out the forms for changing it.
Form 15; there is a box there for updating an agreement.
You will need to know what the right amount of child support is; you will need to know how to calculate it.
Apply for the back child support simply because it is something you are obligated to do.

[Alpinist]

Do I take him to court? Do I file a motion with the court? Do I request the back support owed? Do I sit around and wait for his reply?

[Alpinist]

So here I am now. Since around early September we've had this finalized agreement draft ready for signatures with all the changes we've agreed to. My ex, self represented through the process while I spent thousands with my lawyer reviewing the changes (reasoning above). Early November ex texted to say sorry this is taking so long, he's switching lawyers ad this one was taking too long. I had my lawyer give him a deadline to reply because it's been over 3 months now! This deadline is now past. Crickets. I am getting fed up as this whole process began in January when he so badly wanted the agreement updated so he could claim an Eligible Dependant credit at tax time. This is laughable now because it was all so urgent to him back then.

I think that waiting 3 months for his reply is unreasonable. I know it's my fault that I've spent thousands on legal fees and him nothing. He was under paying me in child support, below the offset amount. He makes triple my income and I have to play this game with him.

Any ideas on how I should proceed? I just want my agreement finalized.
He does owe me thousands in back child support..around 10,000 Which I wasn't going to go after because it didn't feel right to do so, but perhaps it is right in this case?

[Alpinist]

Through the years my ex has tried and tried, different ways in order to avoid having to pay me the offset amount of child support. I don't think he feels the offset amount is fair. He tried to not include certain income and bonuses etc. I had tried to deal with just him, but he sent me email after email with kind of these pressuring tactics and bullying behavior so I would agree to what he proposed. For example he wanted to pay me one huge lump sum payment of child support, etc. He was not disclosing income to me, yet his income had gone up considerably. I got fed up with him. It came to a point where I needed a lawyer badly. If it weren't for my lawyer my ex would never have agreed to paying me this offset amount of child support. It took having to retain a lawyer. Of course he wanted to save money by self representing through this process. Surprisingly.. Although he has quite a bit more money then I do, he doesn't want to spend a dime on literally anything. If I needed a change, it had to go through my lawyer, unfortunately. So that's where I'm at now.

The Judge Judy reference makes complete sense to me. Just crossing my fingers that I can have a finalized and signed agreement soon!

[StillPaying]

Either retain a lawyer to represent you or don't. You can't have it both ways. You can easily do the negotiations yourself and hired a lawyer at the end if you're looking to save money. Why pay for someone, make everything go through them making them liable, then tell them to not review? It's not overkill or double billing at all. Lawyer is served papers, they review, provide you options, then respond accordingly.

[Tayken]

I think the overall idea here is that if my ex, now represented by a lawyer, responds and wishes to change items that we've already worked through, when I was paying for a lawyer and he wasn't....that he already agreed to, then I think it's fair at that point to request the back support.

Unless you have a pen-and-ink signed agreement any "agreement" you have made may be not an agreement like you think. Until such time that a signed agreement on the item... its still in negotiation even if you are "close" or even in "agreement".

Judge Judy talks about this all the time... (as an example) The four walls of the agreement on a physical paper with both of your signatures and initials on every page is the only thing she cares about...

[rockscan]

This may not be possible with a lawyer on retention. A retained lawyer has a legal and ethical obligation to review the documents from the other side in their entirety. They do this as well so they are not blindsided by something in the docs that they would have known about if he/she read the docs.

Even if you know what is being said by heart, your lawyer will still insist on walking through your agreement with you so that you understand everything that is in there, what it means, etc. This is to protect themselves so that you don't come back later asking why they did not explain something to you.

Some lawyers will do this. My husband’s lawyer’s practice was to send the documents as soon as they were received and then request to book an appointment. We would review the docs and then set an appointment to meet with him to determine a response. He didn’t review the documents until the meeting. Normally his assistant would scan the document to see if there was an item requiring assistance (ie a request to hold a date for appearance etc.) otherwise there was no action until my husband had reviewed.

Again, Alpinist can speak to her lawyer and ask her about this. I don’t see a need for the lawyer to review the matter without her client and then provide her advice and then do an additional meeting in person or by zoom to do it again. I think that is a bit of overkill and double billing.

[Alpinist]

When we were working through the agreement before, my ex, self represented would reply to my lawyers emails, but also he would CC myself in the response. My lawyer would immediately respond to myself, point by point with her opinions and suggestions, in detail. (paragraphs...) At this point I had already had an opinion if how I wished to respond. I would then reply by email to my lawyer with how I wanted each item handled.

I can see now it's kind of double billing. In the end I realize she would be obliged to offer her perspective on each item anyhow. But ya there was a lot of back and forth and that gets costly.

I think the overall idea here is that if my ex, now represented by a lawyer, responds and wishes to change items that we've already worked through, when I was paying for a lawyer and he wasn't....that he already agreed to, then I think it's fair at that point to request the back support.

[rockscan]

Which is why I say ask your lawyer to send the docs without reviewing and you will book an appointment to discuss/give direction.

If the other lawyer wants to be a dick then you can respond with a request for backdated support.

[Tayken]

Get ready... The other lawyer is going to balance anything that is in your favor. Ultimately, the person with the deepest pockets often wins in family law. Be very mindful that he probably has had silent legal counsel in the background reviewing materials and is now going to put them front and center to drive up legal costs. Typical mode of operation when there is such an income discrepancy.

Its common to see this happen these days. Its also very sad our legal system works this way.

[rockscan]

Your lawyer works for you not herself. She does not need to review things before you do and provide her suggestions. You are fully capable of reading it and writing down your thoughts and questions. She’s basically double billing you for reading it herself and then reading it again with you.

Your ex can be a dick all he wants, if it isn’t in line with the law then its not going to fly. Case in point? My husband’s agreement was in line with the law. His ex decided once the kids went to school that she was entitled to more. She filed a motion and then lost because she wasn’t in line with the law. Your ex will not get away with his changes if they aren’t even remotely close.

You are smart enough to deal with things without your lawyer having her hands on everything all the time. She should be sending you the documents and letting you make an appointment to discuss. Tell her going forward you would like the items sent to you to review and you will schedule time with her to review and discuss. Then go from there. If he owes you money and wants to play hardball, tell him you want that money to agree to his changes. See where he goes.

And yes this is expensive. My husband spent $12,000 to fight his ex over her refusal to adhere to the agreement and she ended up settling on what he offered from the beginning. Other than $3000 in costs he won, he was out more than ten because she was an idiot. Let’s hope your ex pulls his head out of his ass.

[Alpinist]

I guess I just feel like if he comes back wanting to change something we've already discussed, agreed upon and updated, whilst I was paying my lawyer and he agreed to preliminarily while he self represented then I don't feel like paying tonnes more in expenses now. Time will tell what he comes back with!

My lawyer did state in a letter to my ex when we were working through post secondary wording that we'd advise he receive legal counsel. Yet.. He did not do this. He still responded on his own accord, while I kept paying my lawyer to have all these changes updated. Draft upon draft, clean copy vs old copy etc. Costly on my end.

[Alpinist]

Thanks rockscan. I knew you would understand. So yes what happens is he sends his changes usually (the self represented changes) and immediately my lawyer looks over everything via email and then responds to me point by point over email and I get billed. My ex has some strange ideas about the separation agreement. Like wanting to pay me lump monthly support payments or one payment to be done with me, lol. We've actually worked through so much already with my lawyer. The agreement is looking great. We've worked through many items, and it wasn't easy.

He has this strange idea about post secondary that he wanted to waive any requirement of post secondary payments from either of us.. He wanted to just say that the amount he would have paid me for child support would be used directly to cover post secondary fees. My lawyer and I didn't agree and we responded with a proposal of the standard handling. The child's portion comes off the top and any bursaries or grants and the remainder is split according to income. He agreed to this change. But now... Hes said his lawyer is reviewing and most likely that the lawyer won't like our school working. I have a hard time believing this.

I'll do as you've said. Then deal with how he responds. But I like the idea of just myself reviewing his response first before my lawyer.

[rockscan]

So do this, tell your lawyer to just send his changes and you will review before setting up an appointment to discuss. Look at the changes and decide if they are worth fighting over. If they are bullshit, tell him you want back support in the amount of $10,000. That may shut him up and save some money.

Hes allowed to request changes. You can review them yourself without your lawyer.