Access & Visitation Restrictions

[smadax]

I've had an ongoing battle with DH ex-gf ...Regretably she is a crack addict & alcoholic in an emotionally abusive relationship and there is ongoing RCMP & MCFD involvement associated with her young stepson.

We've had custody of DH children for 2-3 years and there has been a scheduled visitation and access agreement. Ex was ordered to attend mediation services re: telephone access and she did not follow through, therefore in breech of order. On one occassion she's conversed with the children via telephone while intoxicated and also contacted the children @ school via telephone during school hours.

We did give her two opportunities for visitation where she was dishonest about the Hotel they were staying, she exposed the children to family with criminal tendacies and MCFD was prepared for removal and she attempted to keep the children in her care for a longer period of time than we'd agreed.

Nov '07 She's had RCMP/MCFD child safety concern associated with the stepson while in her care. Ex moved to local transition house where she resides to this day... 2.5 months later and counting! MCFD Supervision Order applied.

Dec '07 MCFD recommend we only allow supervised visitation.

Jan '08 FRA Judge granted suspension of all visitation/access until Jan 29th... unless all parties make an agreement by consent, another date would be set for hearing. I assume the Judge would want to reinstate some access to the children before our hearing date.

My question is.... Telephone access is difficult because to have it supervised I'd have to take the whole family (4 kids in all) across town and sit around for up to 1 hour while they converse. What are the alternatives??

- I fully intend to request supervised visitation, days only.
- Restrict all access to the children during school hours.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[logicalvelocity]

Supervised access centre to me is the solution.


lv

[robrjm]

supervised access

I know of a similar situation. The father gets to see the child for 1.5 hours every other weekend at a supervised access centre. If intoxicated, the visit is cancelled. No other funny business is allowed. You would not come in contact with the EX.

P.S. Why do you assume the judge would want the child to be involved with this person? Judges are concerned with the best intersest of the child. They do not attempt to be fair or nice. They want to keep kids safe. The judge may want to keep the child away from this person.

[smadax]

inevitable

The Judge will grant visitation and access because this is the biological Mother, as I understand the children have a right to remain in contact with her and they desire to do so.... therefore we like to accomodate those needs while trying to create protective boundaries.

The supervised visitation is a none issue insofar as the Mother lives very far away and visitation is 2-4 times per year, therefore not an inconvenience to arrange through the local Family Justice Centre.

My main concern is the access which was via telephone and previously set at twice per week for up to one hour. I've been looking through CanLii and haven't seen alternatives to supervised telephone access...

a) three-way conference calling.
b) restricted telephone access with calling done on speaker phone.
c) internet communication only, i.e MSN Messenger and/or email only.

With supervised telephone access my presumption is that we'd have to travel across town with the children to the Family Justice Centre, or would the Mother be the only one expected to attend the office for supervised telephone access and we recieve the call at our home??

[smadax]

court date

Our appearance today was uneventful, although we'd been scheduled for 1 hour we were in front of a Judge for about 5 minutes!

As previously stated I was confident the Judge would grant some sort of access, considering the Mother lives an extensive distance for visitation and already the parental rights were suspended for one month.... but I was wrong, these appearances never cease to amaze me because they are so unpredicatable!!

The Judge did not change anything, rather we were adjourned to April and everything stays the same.... strange!

[smadax]

telephone access

I forgot to mention that I did find two private companies that do offer supervised telephone access via three-way conference calling, at a fee of course. Just wanted to point out that it is a viable option, however in my town they charge $35/hour with 2 hour minimum!

That remedied my issues before about travelling across town.

[standing on the sidelines]

why could you not get one of the recorders that tape telephone conversations? As the start of the call tell her it is being taped and make sure she ackowledges she knows what is being done. Not sure if this is okay but I think if the parties are informed that the conversation is being recorded, it is not illeagal.

[smadax]

That is what I've been doing, recording telephone calls with her knowledge. But, it hasn't helped because we don't find out she's misbehaved until AFTER the access has ended and damage is done ... we need solutions in real time for it to be effective in order to protect the children from her forked tongue.

We have also had intermitten issues with her speaking to the children while intoxicated, even though we've tried to create a safety plan with the children for these instances, they still don't inform us of these facts until AFTER the access has ended.

Not to mention, we've had court ordered mediation in an effort to remedy our concerns regarding telephone access which she's never attended.

I was expecting the Judge to grant the biological Mother some sort of access, I'd suggested MSN Messenger once a week and he didn't budge. I find that strange because we're encouraging SOME sort of contact and have only asked for supervised access and visitation, I wasn't expecting a lengthy suspension. It's hard on the children to be disconnected from their parents, it's not in their best interest and irrational especially when we're trying to negotiate reasonable contact, not termination!

Alas, maybe it's a reality check the biological mother needs to set her priorities straight in her dealings with her children, a gained appreciation. On the flip side it's regretable that the children also suffer from her actions.

I have a Notice which will be heard Frebruary maybe I'll request MSN again.
If not, I have pre-trial in March, before our hearing in April.

[jellyben]

Hello:
Well my son's Lawyer (in ottawa ont.) said that tape recordings were no good that the judge would not consider them.

[FL_Needs_To_Change]

And our lawyer encouraged us to record every interaction and we have used them in court without any problems or statements from the presiding judge.

[smadax]

** UPDATE **

Jan 2, 2008 Biological Mother had visitation & access suspended with the understanding we'd be back in court by April to renegotiate.

9 MONTHS LATER... we have not attended court!
For some reason this is getting me worried. Defense Counsel has stated the original suspension expired April 2008, is that true??

[dadtotheend]

Has she been involved?

[smadax]

We've maintained the suspension for telephone access, which she has accepted. There has been attempted visitation, our Order says we're to recieve 24 hrs notice which she's ignored. At first we offered supervised visitation ... 2-3 failed attempted visits later I gave up and stated visitation is suspended until such time as it's renegotiated in court.

First attempted visit, no notice - regardless of the fact that the distance is approx. 18 hour direct drive, 24-30 hrs on the bus. I volunteered to supervise but stipulated the CL BF be absent, he's a known cocaine user with a history of causing needless conflict. I arranged to meet in a public park and upon our arrival we spotted her CL BF sitting in the grass, therefore we turned around and left due to breech of our verbal agreement.

Second attempt didn't work, but I don't recall the details.
Third attempt, she arrived 10PM with no notice and stayed in a Hotel within a block of our home. I offered supervised visitation, but when I called the Hotel in the AM there was no answer. I had the Hotel Manager knock on the door and there was no answer... so I went to work, assuming she'd contact me on my cellphone (she knows the number) but nothing. When I returned home that evening she'd left messages on the landline in the afternoon, but she'd since left town to travel back to her place of residence.

Now it's a waiting game with our Lawyers to see when we'll get a date for Hearing, I just don't wanna get into trouble with the Judge for not following our Order correctly in this situation and SO much time has already passed without any access or visitation with their Mother, I kinda feel badly about it!

[logicalvelocity]

We've maintained the suspension for telephone access, which she has accepted. There has been attempted visitation, our Order says we're to recieve 24 hrs notice which she's ignored. At first we offered supervised visitation ... 2-3 failed attempted visits later I gave up and stated visitation is suspended until such time as it's renegotiated in court.

First attempted visit, no notice - regardless of the fact that the distance is approx. 18 hour direct drive, 24-30 hrs on the bus. I volunteered to supervise but stipulated the CL BF be absent, he's a known cocaine user with a history of causing needless conflict. I arranged to meet in a public park and upon our arrival we spotted her CL BF sitting in the grass, therefore we turned around and left due to breech of our verbal agreement.

Second attempt didn't work, but I don't recall the details.
Third attempt, she arrived 10PM with no notice and stayed in a Hotel within a block of our home. I offered supervised visitation, but when I called the Hotel in the AM there was no answer. I had the Hotel Manager knock on the door and there was no answer... so I went to work, assuming she'd contact me on my cellphone (she knows the number) but nothing. When I returned home that evening she'd left messages on the landline in the afternoon, but she'd since left town to travel back to her place of residence.

Now it's a waiting game with our Lawyers to see when we'll get a date for Hearing, I just don't wanna get into trouble with the Judge for not following our Order correctly in this situation and SO much time has already passed without any access or visitation with their Mother, I kinda feel badly about it!

Maybe it is just me, but I don't think a court would have a problem if the parties amended an existing order to facilitate some sort of access for the child. I only suggest this as it appears the existing Access order has expired.

[smadax]

Dilemma

Maybe it is just me, but I don't think a court would have a problem if the parties amended an existing order to facilitate some sort of access for the child. I only suggest this as it appears the existing Access order has expired.

That's my inquiry... we'd filed with the Court re: supervised visitation & access. During first appearance Judge suspended everything until terms could be negotiated with original Judge, which was assumed to be April 2008.

April date was adjourned by Defense Counsel as they'd been newly retained, but has since stated our suspension order is expired and his client is entitled to visitation & access... which means we're in breech, is that true?? If so, should be file a Motion to have the suspension upheld until renegotiation?? If so, why hasn't my Lawyer made that Motion???

MCFD have maintained the Supervised visitation is recommended due to ongoing accusations of drug use, domestic disputes, RCMP involvement, drinking and neglect of 11 year old stepson.... can't say I'm open to the idea of allowing unsupervised visitation nor telephone access at this time. But not getting any legal advice from my Lawyer whom I haven't been able to track down for an update over the passed 6 months!!

A few weeks ago I did speak to the bio Mother re: temporary consent agreement for supervised visitation and access via MSN messenger... but she's unwilling to accept those terms and would rather wait for a Hearing.