ethics of lawyers

[Victorviola]

Thank you all... I will post jusgement when it xomes in...think I did very well,,, ex used defence of laches so he doesn't have to pay spousal support...

[StillPaying]

I like the idea of having A.I. help with writing and finding information. This can help so much; just make sure to double check the cases/info to ensure it's correct.

Your case law used to help support your claims will go in your Book of Authorities and submitted to your ex and judge. You're not really going through them during your closing statement. The judge will read it after and address them in the final order if needed.

Your closing statement is more of a summary of what you want the judge to decide - supported by the trial's testimonies, evidence, documents, witnesses, etc. You're also explaining how/why this evidence does not support your ex's claims.

You're talking directly to the judge, summarizing the trial and guiding them on what their decision should be.

[arbortrail22]

Prompt: Please provide a summary of Baker v Baker from Ontario focusing on setting aside separation agreements
ChatGPT said:

ChatGPT

Baker v. Baker from Ontario is a significant family law case that deals with the issue of setting aside separation agreements. In this case, the court examined whether a separation agreement, which typically governs the division of property and spousal support following the breakdown of a marriage, could be overturned or modified.

The key legal question centered on whether the agreement was fair, made with full financial disclosure, and whether both parties entered into it freely and voluntarily, without undue influence or coercion.

Key Points of the Case:

1. Financial Disclosure: The court emphasized that for a separation agreement to be binding, both parties must have made full and frank financial disclosure. If one party was not fully informed about the other’s financial situation, the agreement might be set aside.
2. Unconscionability: The court reviewed whether the terms of the agreement were unconscionable at the time it was signed. If the agreement was grossly unfair to one party, it could be deemed unconscionable and subject to revision.
3. Voluntariness: The parties must have entered into the separation agreement voluntarily, without any undue pressure or influence. If one party was coerced or under duress when signing, the agreement might be invalidated.
4. Independent Legal Advice: The availability and quality of independent legal advice is also a factor. If a party did not receive proper legal advice before entering into the agreement, the court might find that it was unfair and set it aside.

In Baker v. Baker, the court's decision to set aside or uphold the separation agreement hinged on these principles. The ruling underscores the importance of fairness, transparency, and voluntariness in family law agreements, particularly when one party seeks to challenge the agreement after it has been executed.

This case illustrates how Ontario courts approach separation agreements, ensuring they are fair and equitable, especially when financial matters are at stake.

[arbortrail22]

You should use chatgpt... Simple request produced the below. Also, I would recommend you write up bullet points, summaries of key facts and have chat gpt help you write up sections of your closing argument. Don't ask it to write the whole thing in one prompt- develop an outline and work with chatgpt to write up each section. You can use that as your basis for the closing arguments.

from chatgpt:
In Ontario, several cases address the grounds for setting aside a separation agreement. Here are a few significant cases that may be relevant:

1. Bergman v. Bergman (1993): This case emphasizes the importance of full financial disclosure. If one party did not receive complete financial information, the agreement may be set aside.
2. Kearney v. Kearney (2000): This case discusses the issue of unconscionability, where one party took advantage of the other’s vulnerability. It highlights that if the agreement is fundamentally unfair, it may be set aside.
3. Baker v. Baker (2004): In this case, the court considered the issue of lack of independent legal advice. If one party did not fully understand the implications of the agreement, it could be a reason to set it aside.
4. M v. M (2014): This case focuses on the principle of duress, where one party was pressured into signing the agreement. The court may intervene if the agreement was not entered into freely.
5. McCafferty v. McCafferty (2013): This case involved the review of circumstances surrounding the agreement, including the context in which it was signed and whether it was made under a misapprehension of the facts.

When considering setting aside a separation agreement, it's essential to consult a legal professional who can analyze the specific circumstances and provide tailored advice based on current law and case precedents.

[Victorviola]

Friday r closing statements so please help..

[Victorviola]

Need some help,

Managed to secure funds to be held in trust from a sale of a home by respondent...

Judge said respondent verge of paranoia but would not strike his pleadings, instead move up my trial from next September to now....

Last minute my lawyer wanted $100k to do trial, had to borrow funds of 30k to prep everything, (all about the $$ even though i was a client for 5 years....

Self repped and did amazing except for learning case lines,,,

Respondent went from making $40k to $250k each year thanks to a valuator report and thats only on limited disclosure...this last week was beyond stressful with 24 hours notice your trial starts next day... believe u can do it as facts and the truth are the truth...

So now.......I have closing arguments....don't know what to do for case law...SO IF ANYONR HAS GOOD CASE LAW PLEASE LET ME KNOW....

DURESS SIGNING SEPARATION AGREEMENT-
NO DISCLOSURE
NO LAWYER OR COUNSEL
RESPONDENT FAKED HIS INCOME BY 200K
DID NOT HONOR SEPARATION AGREEMENT BY NOT PAYINF CHILD SUPPORT, NOT HAVING LIFE INSURANCE, NOT DIVIDIN ASSETS EQUALLY ON SALE OF MATRIMONIAL HOME..

Iam looking set aside the separation agrrement, retroactive child and sposalu support...

I can tell the story its the case law to back it up i need help with..

If anyone can send some precedants that r similar in nature that would be awesome..

Light At end of tunnel looks brighter each day... 6.5 year fight...
cheers

[Victorviola]

Motion scheduled for mid August, Strike of pleadings motion or in the alternative 53k in punitive damages plus $1k per day in fines for not providing disclosure to CBV....it's been 6 years.. doubt a judge will impose this but lawyer put it forward. Hoping for some real justice finally

[StillPaying]

Over four thousand dollars for a simple document - debatably the easiest one - would be financial abuse.

[rockscan]

he agreed with 7 statements pertaining to date of marriage, divorce date child's birthday ect. Miniscule items. He disagreed with over 200 points and provided ZERO explanations. Zero. None. Zilch. I spent o er $4k to prepare this request. My lawyer is seeking strike of pleadings now. This is a game for the rich while the people seeking justice get screwed, 6plus Yeats but there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Any thoughts?

I wouldn't worry too much. Make sure your lawyer pushes the judge at the appearance. Your ex can think whatever he wants, the judge is the one who matters. And yes it is costly but in the end, you (hopefully) get things settled.

Just don't push your lawyer to do anything extra or unnecessary. That should save a bit of money.

[StillPaying]

My ex wouldn't agree to anything! The conference judge ended up writing a few items into their endorsement; dates of marriage, separation, mat home purchase, kids bdays, etc and that was all we had. It really doesn't matter though and will all be handled at trial. Nothing to do with rich or getting screwed... don't stress.

[Victorviola]

My ex was served with a request to admit on March 18th as per courier receipt although he doesn't live where he states but rents out primary residence. No iidea where he really lives still. He had 20 days to respond as per family law rules. 212 points in request..... he emailed my lawyer on april 3rd that he received the request on March 26th contrary to receipt from courier. Guess his tenant signed for package... on may 2nd I received his response which my lawyer received on may2nd.

He states on the request to admit form that he received it on April 2nd, he dated it and signed the request to admit april 20th but emailed it to my lawyer may 2nd.... he agreed with 7 statements pertaining to date of marriage, divorce date child's birthday ect. Miniscule items. He disagreed with over 200 points and provided ZERO explanations. Zero. None. Zilch. I spent o er $4k to prepare this request. My lawyer is seeking strike of pleadings now. This is a game for the rich while the people seeking justice get screwed, 6plus Yeats but there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Any thoughts?

[Victorviola]

Question: march 5th ex was served with request to admit via mail and courier, (as his email for the past 6 moths has bounced back from the lawyers office) he responded on April 4th via email to my lawyer, He blames my lawyer for the email bouncing back, and says he only received the request to admit march 24th. My lawyers legal assistant also spoke with my ex on march 5th at which time he advised he has no email and is not willing to setup a new one. ( and he's an IT professional) priceless... he is past the due date of 20 days, he states that he should be given more time to respond.... thoughts???

[rockscan]

They also do it because they can't find a lawyer to represent them. One of the dads on here that I worked with, his ex was fired by three lawyers and she self repped and was a disaster. Ditto for my husband's ex. Her lawyer told my husband's lawyer he was on a limited scope retainer because she wouldn't listen to his advice. He came on fully for the settlement conference as she was struggling to resolve the matter. Too bad neither one of these women understood they were the barrier to a settlement!

[StillPaying]

A self represented litigant is someone who chooses to do it themselves often because they think it is "easy" to do. Unrepresented litigants have to do it because they have no other option. Get that squared away in your head.

I never looked at it like this but it makes sense. It is very limited and rare when someone could self rep. I will always say having a lawyer is better. Unfortunately it's not a reality for all making unrepresented a no choice situation.

The system is designed to help the unrepresented with the ease of forms, appearances and conferences. This is where the limited hand holding ends. Motions are very serious where orders will affect you and big dollars can come into play with cost. Trial is a whole other beast, where all your research time spent so far will easily double.

It's not unattainable by any means but you're right - be prepared to spend hours everyday studying, researching, countless meetings at flic, and asking questions here as you go. The appearances are limited but the paperwork is endless. And then there's trial...

[Tayken]

As well, I will quote Working dad in Ukrainian and English:

UKR: Я не представляю себе, я не представлений. Якби я міг дозволити собі адвоката, я б його мав. Це різниця, ваша честь.

ENG: I do not represent myself, I am not represented. If I could afford a lawyer I would have one. That's the difference, your honor.

That is a direct quote to the Honourable Mr. Justice Pazaratz when he corrected the Honourable Justice on the use and reference to him as a "self represented" litigant. See, WorkingDad would have hired a lawyer if could have afforded one. Never ever think that WorkingDad did what he did because he "could" do it. He did what he did because he couldn't afford a lawyer.

A self represented litigant is someone who chooses to do it themselves often because they think it is "easy" to do. Unrepresented litigants have to do it because they have no other option. Get that squared away in your head.