This thread has deteriorated beyond anything useful. Shutting it down before any further name calling and personal attacks get posted.
Thanks for coming out, don't leave your garbage under the seats.
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HELP!! Legal fees insane!!
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Originally posted by plainNamedDad44 View PostHey Coolguy... that's hilarious, but given the fact that P1 through to P4 are not deterministic, the grade 3 math below is useless.
That's left as an exercise to the reader.
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Originally posted by plainNamedDad44 View PostHey Coolguy... that's hilarious, but given the fact that P1 through to P4 are not deterministic, the grade 3 math below is useless.
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Hey Coolguy... that's hilarious, but given the fact that P1 through to P4 are not deterministic, the grade 3 math below is useless.
But I guess amusing to at least you.
Originally posted by CoolGuy41 View PostEvery Tom, Dick, and Harry involved in a high-conflict matrimonial litigation has had this dilemma. Luckily, I can help.
Scenario #1 - win with lawyer:
W1(PND wins) = [What's at stake] + [costs to PND] - [Lawyer fees]
Scenario #2 - lose with lawyer (worst-case scenario):
L2(PND losses) = [What's at stake] + [costs to STBX] + [Lawyer fees]
Scenario #3 - win without lawyer:
W3(PND wins) = [What's at stake] + [costs to PND]
Scenario #4 - lose without lawyer:
L4(PND losses) = [What's at stake] + [costs to STBX]
Consider the probability, Pn of each of the above scenarios.
if((P1xW1-P2xL2) > (P3xW3-P4xL4)) use lawyer; else self-represent;
Notes:
(i) What's at stake is known to you.
(ii) [costs to PND] < less than what you think it is
(iii) There is a substantial chance of a partial win that somewhat complicates the equations.
I am happy to have assisted. If however, you are asking the forum for the values of P1 through P4, then you are asking too much of the forum.
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Originally posted by OrleansLawyer View PostThe rule of thumb is that a lawyer will put in two days of work for each day of trial. Based on that schedule, your lawyer is preparing for a ~4 day trial. How long is your matter set down to last?
I recall from a previous thread that you are micromanaging your lawyer. This could be increasing your costs.
Yes, this happens fairly often. However if you do then your ex's lawyer will likely smell blood in the water - any hope of settlement is likely to be gone as well.
Does she have the financial assets (or money coming from you) to offset a cost award?
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Originally posted by Janus View PostNobody ever tips their lawyer. Seriously, I have never heard of it ever.
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An old lady has just signed her Will with her solicitor and, having been presented with the invoice, immediately pays it in full with a crisp, new, $100 bill.
After the old lady departs, the lawyer goes to put the $100 into a safe when he discovers that there are two $100 bills stuck together.
As he goes to the window of his office and looks down at the old lady crossing the street to catch the bus, the lawyer realizes he has an ethical dilemma:
Does he tell share the $100 tip with his partner?
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Nobody ever tips their lawyer. Seriously, I have never heard of it ever.
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Originally posted by youngdad91 View PostI don't mind paying CS...Originally posted by youngdad91 View PostI usually pay him a nice tip when he renders my accounts.
Again, our attitudes make us different.
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CoolGuy has a good point (#3). While it is nice to be able to say "you're fired" I can tell you it is much preferable to sit on the sidelines and watch one's lawyer perform in court than actually having to do it yourself. Lawyers have the experience with various judges they appear before in knowing just how far to push things. If you go in you are pretty much up-the-creek-without-a-paddle. I have been both represented by competent counsel and self-represented. I prefer the latter any day. However, my matter has evolved into redundancy (on my ex's part) and self-representation has been so far, quite adequate.
Never forget that family court matters are typically close-to-the heart and it can be very difficult to stay focused. DO NOT expect sympathy from the court. Lengthy, boring presentations will only irritate a judge.
I'd keep a good lawyer, particularly for trial. You are a homeowner and therefore should be able to talk to your banker about a loan. You can bet that your lawyer would not be taking your case to trial if they had any doubt of your creditworthiness?
Good luck with whatever way you decide to pursue.
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Originally posted by youngdad91 View PostCool guy, it sounds like I would have revealed the same thing about myself. 3.5 years. Actually , hilariously enough, $24,000 to my first lawyer for 2 years just for showing up to conferences and adjourning, and arguing 2 motions (one won on consent, one won by argument). Her final bill would have actually put me over $32000, but I had her accounts assessed and reduced to $24,000.
I'm all for holding lawyers to account, but the trouble is this:
1) You don't really know how much work your lawyer is actually putting in. To a large extent, you have to trust them.
2) If you catch them overcharging you for something and call them out on it, it's easy for the lawyer to just say OK, I'll refund that one (say, $80) for you, and then he'll turn around and overcharge you (by say, $1k) elsewhere.
3) If you fire and replace your lawyer in an advanced stage, the new lawyer will have to read all the shit from the beginning, bill you for it, and still not soak it in because he won't have the benefit of learning through spaced repetition.
He's quoted me $13,000 (to be paid up front) if we had to do a 3 day trial.
I went through this. Wanted to ditch my lawyer and verbally negotiated a capped fee with another lawyer, one with great online reviews. 2 days later her assistant emailed me a retainer letter that did not mention the cap. She did not get my business.
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Dear forum members, ^^ this is what your lawyer will (or is supposed to be anyways) doing for your case. If you actually think your lawyer will spend 4 hours a day for the next 3 weeks doing this, then you're just realizing that you're eating grass like the cows in photo attached above - and pasted below.
$24,000 is a lot of money. Sounds like some other thoughts went into the coming up with this number. It will pay off the lawyer's credit card balance, mortgage and bills for the next 3 months, and about $10,000 to take a nice vacation with her family to the bahamas, and $3000 of left over "feel good" money.
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Youngdad,
Allow me reveal something personal about myself: I am lawyered-up to the teeth and have been involved in matrimonial litigation for most of the past 4 years. I am on these forums mostly for entertainment purposes, with a secondary objective of providing some advice to fathers who are being screwed by the system. Only a small minority of people on here even have the potential to offer me any useful insight. You are not in that minority. Be happy that you are not in that minority; you don't want to be in that minority.
The bills facing PND, while I agree that they are insane, are not out of line with what other divorce lawyers charge. OrleansLawyer, if I understand his post correctly, agrees the fee is reasonable if PND is prepping for a 4-day trial. Keep these fees in mind when drafting your settlement offer.
Between your post and my post I received a bill from my lawyer for a bit over $2k for October. No court appearances took place in October, just one letter to OC and same letter to the Court. I sent him 2 emails, in one of which I actually had to school him on a matter of law.
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