Why fathers and Shared Parenting Matters....

[trinton]

And as the judge in this matter demonstrated... They are educated and you don't need to educate them at all.

not all of them. especially so the biased sexist ones. good cop bad cop. regardless my intention was to educate the posters so they can and will hold our judges accountable.

[Tayken]

They do matter as that is what the social workers generally go off. Children in joint custody / equal access generally have higher self esteem and do better in school. When there is conflict, in sole custody don't do any better than those counterparts children in joint custody / equal access

This is directly from canlii:

And as the judge in this matter demonstrated... They are educated and you don't need to educate them at all.

[Doctor Martins]

They do matter as that is what the social workers generally go off. Children in joint custody / equal access generally have higher self esteem and do better in school. When there is conflict, in sole custody don't do any better than those counterparts children in joint custody / equal access

This is directly from canlii:

Do you have the case for this?

[trinton]

Note: Statistics and studies don't matter.

They do matter as that is what the social workers generally go off. Children in joint custody / equal access generally have higher self esteem and do better in school. When there is conflict, in sole custody don't do any better than those counterparts children in joint custody / equal access

This is directly from canlii:

Doctor Frank Williams, director of the Family and Child Psychiatry Programs at Sinai Medical Centre in Los Angeles was referring in a recent address to the American Bar Association[1] when he stated: (as quoted by His Honour Provincial Judge Alan P. Ingram in his address of 4 March 1989 to the Canadian Bar Association of Ontario)

There is the myth in some mental health, legal and judicial thinking that joint custody can only be effectively undertaken by co-operative parents. To the contrary, joint custody provides one of the best methods of stimulating a degree of significant and meaningful co-operation in warring parents who would otherwise continue years of battling to the detriment of their children.


Our experience leads to the conviction that parental identity — if strengthened in both parents — can increase co-operation and that co-operation should not be a criteria for joint custody vs. sole custody schedules for children. During the ensuing years, after custodial orders are in place, children of parents who remain highly unco-operative suffer greatly, and suffer just as much in unilateral sole custody as in joint custody arrangements.

Judge Ingram commented:

He stated that he found that the essential minimum co-operation needed by parents in maintaining a relationship between each parent and the children, develops more rapidly under a joint custody order or agreement. In sole custody situations, the non-custodial parent feels a loss of parental identity or a victim of psychological or “legal parentectomy”, resulting in feelings of powerlessness, depression and rage.

[Tayken]

Note: Statistics and studies don't matter. What matters is the child involved in the case. Every case is unique and all the stats in the world won't help anyone. If you are looking to make a systemic change in Family Law then do it with good case law like WorkingDad has done.

Waxing poetic about "fatherless children" is not going to help anyone or anything. Everyone should act accordingly and do the right things. That will produce an overwhelming set of jurisprudence and bring about change.

Arguing/debating/understanding/pondering/etc... about statistics is about as fruitful as trying to grow a tree in a lava pit. It will only burn you in your legal matters.

Don't think about what should be but, how it could for your child. Not in a systemic way but, vigilant and focused on your matter at hand. Don't save the world's problems... solve your own matter first.

The best way to put it is with a Matrix quote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAXtO5dMqEI

Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Spoon boy: There is no spoon.
Neo: There is no spoon?
Spoon boy: Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.

[Doctor Martins]

I did exactly that, waited a long time, to be sure my life was ready, and that my spouse was a good choice. It totally backfired. Even good planning fails under the right circumstances.

You can't waste your time wishing for a happier past. You have to move into the future with the present you've got.

Yes of course, and reality is I wasn't even sure if i wanted children at all.. and maybe unless forced i wouldnt have, or would have gotten too old. However she asked.. its just sad because I think its really not a good thing to have a broken home and i think people are too frivolous these days..

[Rioe]

In any case at least i had the basics in my head that id never have children until i got married to someone I was sure about and spent a good amount of time married before having children... at least that was the plan...

I did exactly that, waited a long time, to be sure my life was ready, and that my spouse was a good choice. It totally backfired. Even good planning fails under the right circumstances.

You can't waste your time wishing for a happier past. You have to move into the future with the present you've got.

[Doctor Martins]

I think right now, I need to deal with my own problems and consequences for the best interest of mine and my fathers children, and deal with my own poor choices before I am ready to conquer others parents problems. Your "what ifs" are thoughts for more senior members who have "been there" imo. I havent even reached the court system yet.

Did the Mother of your child make a poor choice? If society should encourage people to make better choices, where did u go wrong?

Yes but not because I'm a bad father, I'm a great father.. but because she got pregnant on purpose to try and keep me .. I had always wanted to get married and be very selective before starting a family.. This is someone i never would have chosen to have a child with.. Yes i had sex with her.. but she lied about birth control and then about having an abortion.. Im still responsible for my actions but my point is that had a planned things out I would never have had a child outside of marriage and I wanted till late 30's and was still unmarried and had never been because I was waiting for the right person to have children with.

I spent years dating recreationally .. had i had it to do over again i would have been pursuing a relationship much more seriously early on.. but even then it took me a long time to start valuing the right things..

In any case at least i had the basics in my head that id never have children until i got married to someone I was sure about and spent a good amount of time married before having children... at least that was the plan..

The poor decision my ex made was trying to bypass the system.. I think a lot of people who can't have relationships let alone proper marriages think they can be good parents.. and i kind of look at it like learn to walk before you run.. but its a lot easier to have a child than it is to be a parent.. and I think people look for shortcuts in todays society.. So they rush to jump steps when they haven't even worked out their own emotional issues.

[kate331]

I think right now, I need to deal with my own problems and consequences for the best interest of mine and my fathers children, and deal with my own poor choices before I am ready to conquer others parents problems. Your "what ifs" are thoughts for more senior members who have "been there" imo. I havent even reached the court system yet.

Did the Mother of your child make a poor choice? If society should encourage people to make better choices, where did u go wrong?

[Doctor Martins]

Thanks Doctor Martin for the info. I couldn't agree more that 50/50 should be default. And children in Fatherless homes are disadvantaged. Have you ever thought that your up against a system, that is full of "Deadbeat" Dads? (Sorry to use that term for all the wonderful Dads here) but I believe it needs to be addressed before "the system" can move forward. Just my 2 cents

I think our culture well addresses dead beat dads... in the media etc. But I don't think you hear the other side.. the women who pick horrible fathers. For examples, lets say you go and get pregnant by a guy who is a bum on the street, is it really fair to call him a dead beat dad after the fact? Or was it the mother's poor choice in who to have a child with? I am saying both are bad. But in our culture currently single moms are held up as heros. In some cases they are, but there are also a lot of women out there who make really poor choices in the men they decide to have children with. And its treating them like children not to give them moral agency as well.

I think our society should encourage people to make better choices in who they have kids with and then if possible keep families together.

[kate331]

You need to do a search of the forum. LF32 has discussed these topics at length in other threads.

I wish LF32 was still here. After reading his post, I think he would understand my situation. I do hope he is not here, because he is blissfully happy with his family!

[Doctor Martins]

You need to do a search of the forum. LF32 has discussed these topics at length in other threads.

I will search through his stuff.

[kate331]

Thanks Doctor Martin for the info. I couldn't agree more that 50/50 should be default. And children in Fatherless homes are disadvantaged. Have you ever thought that your up against a system, that is full of "Deadbeat" Dads? (Sorry to use that term for all the wonderful Dads here) but I believe it needs to be addressed before "the system" can move forward. Just my 2 cents

[Doctor Martins]

It is a lot more complicated than that. There can be many reasons "fatherless home" influences a child's outcomes, and many other reasons beyond "fatherless home" than influence a child's outcomes. What about thevariable "fatherless home" is the issue for suicide, drop out, drug use? Is it the break or lack of a supportive relationship? Is it the decreased money a father would bring? Is it abuse from that father the child expereinced earlier? Fatherless homes is 1 variable. There are many other variables which also influence drug use, dropping out of school, etc. Poverty, mental health, addiction in a parent, difficulty in school. Poverty of course is a big one. Poverty means you are less likely to do well in school, have poorer physical and mental health, transportation problems to access health and other social services, poorer nutrition, the list goes on and on. Poverty and fatherless homes are also linked. So to say this 1 variable "fatherless homes" influences all of these social problems is to simplify it considerably. No doubt it does influence them, but it is 1 of many issues.

these are statistics. These correlate more highly with fatherlessness than with poverty, race etc. The correlation is extremely high. Look at the african american communities in places like Chicago where there is 72 to 80 homelessness and then look at the number of crimes, murder, poverty, children having children. Conversely, look at communities such as religious communities, jewish communities, several asian communities where there is a focus on keeping families together and then look at the resulting economic success, educational attainment and low crime rates.

There are only three things one has to do to be assured 90% to not end up in poverty.. finish high school, one year of work, not have children out of wedlock..

[denbigh]

It is a lot more complicated than that. There can be many reasons "fatherless home" influences a child's outcomes, and many other reasons beyond "fatherless home" than influence a child's outcomes. What about thevariable "fatherless home" is the issue for suicide, drop out, drug use? Is it the break or lack of a supportive relationship? Is it the decreased money a father would bring? Is it abuse from that father the child expereinced earlier? Fatherless homes is 1 variable. There are many other variables which also influence drug use, dropping out of school, etc. Poverty, mental health, addiction in a parent, difficulty in school. Poverty of course is a big one. Poverty means you are less likely to do well in school, have poorer physical and mental health, transportation problems to access health and other social services, poorer nutrition, the list goes on and on. Poverty and fatherless homes are also linked. So to say this 1 variable "fatherless homes" influences all of these social problems is to simplify it considerably. No doubt it does influence them, but it is 1 of many issues.