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OCL Recommendations - What to do now?

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  • #91
    They want to give you Sunday 12-8 and expand that to every other weekend over the next 5 years? That's crazy.

    Do Saturday and Sunday day visits for 6 months then move to over nights after 6 months and 6 months after that to the full weekends. The access schedule should be reviewed and expanded once the child goes to school (this should be part of the agreement). Hopefully by that time you have found daytime job so you can have weekday over nights.

    Is Sunday 12-8 PM OCL recommendation or the courts? That is honestly the biggest pile of nonsense. I would sure hope that this is every weekend not every other. You could give up opposite weekends for full weekend every other weekend.
    Last edited by trinton; 06-29-2017, 01:07 PM.


    • #92
      Originally posted by Dad1985 View Post
      Is it possible to decide on a gradual increase in access for now than save custody issues for further down the road?

      Such as in interim order? Or is it likely the courts would want the whole thing settled?

      We are waiting on a proposal from the other side. From what I gather it will offer a gradual increase to every other weekend with sole custody to mother with some consideration the the father in decisions (whatever the heck that means...essentially sole)
      Any decision that says joint custody with final say to the parent X or Y is sole custody in costume.

      Check out parenting guidelines and how a court recommended gradual access looks like. try 2 months not 5 years.


      • #93
        Nice find - looks like California courts know a thing or two about children.
        Last edited by trinton; 06-29-2017, 01:41 PM.


        • #94
          Originally posted by trinton View Post
          Nice find - looks like California courts know a thing or two about children.
          This document, I used back in 2011, it's even more detailed now, with holiday and vacation schedules added.

          This is a document produced by a court of competent jurisdiction. They are experts in the process of finding the Best interests of the children.

          This document holds it weight in court, even in Canada.


          • #95
            My favorite line from the document :

            Gradual increase of the less attached parentís contact should occur over time.
            Would appear that the ultimate goal is to maximize the time with both parents (i.e., 50-50) where possible.


            • #96
              Sorry let me clarify about the moving

              The judge essentially said she can move as she pleaaes...just give me 60 days notice. That there is really no reason I can hold her back.

              The ocl recommended sole to Mon with unsupervised for 4 hours for the next 6 months. After that left to a parenting coordinator to work on a gradual increase.

              The judge started off the settlement with immediately disagreeing with the timeline. Said that over nights would be more realistic after a year not in October. Agreed that I should get more time

              Thought the timeline was too soon for joint to be after about a year and a half. Unfortunately threw out the arbortrary number of 5 years now (which my ex will take as fact)

              Reached out to the ex to look for more time on Sundays. Said she would add an hour and that it has to be gradual because our daughter has to adjust.

              The funny thing is I never wanted such little time. So it's almost as if I gave you little time to begin with now she needs to adjust slowly from there.

              I'm waiting on their proposal. Our next speak to isn't till august 27 so I don't think I should expect it until then.

              I would like us to be able to work this out. I've been walked all over along the way


              • #97
                The judge also made a very stern comment saying a trial wouldn't happen until the new year.

                Also, during this time of continue to pay full child support and hold on to a mortgage.

                My lawyer mentioned after the settlement that if it goes to trial it could set precedence should I lose


                • #98
                  are you in Ontario court of Justice or Superior court of Justice ? I would highly recommend discussing an interim motion to eliminate supervise access - you should be able to get this argued in a couple of months time in OCJ but would be within weeks in SCOJ. Given there is mortgage I take it you are in the SCOJ ?

                  W.r.t. to the move,, no ,, doesn't work like that. She would need to get permission from the courts to move. Her move would impact the children's access to you. The move alone would be a material change in circumstance that would allow you to seek sole custody so that children stay with you locally (this is why you want as much as access as possible). That being said, you should ask that she not be permitted to move if she wants sole custody. It's a reasonable counter claim IMO.

                  That clause in your order that access should be expanded will help you change your order in the future without having to prove a material change. You would be able to change your order once the child is out of the "tender years doctrine" regardless. Keep in mind that is _only_ for access. You might not be able to change custody - keeping in mind that you will have to justify why you consented to sole custody initially. Sole custody without the right sanctions will haunt you later on. Some fathers call it _Stolen_ custody.

                  Speak to your lawyer about an interim motion to secure unsupervised access while you guys work through the various issues.

                  PS. Why do you have an order for supervised access ?
                  Last edited by trinton; 06-29-2017, 02:50 PM.


                  • #99
                    There was never an order for unsupervised access. The mother came along during all the time given. During this time it was a take it or leave it from my ex. 3 hours a week. 2 hours at a playcentre 1 hour at the mall while mom either watched or followed. Never court ordered.

                    After ocl recommendedations of 4 hours unsupervised, my ex "graciously" allowed me Sunday 4 hours.

                    The case is in Kitchener court house


                    • Errr
                      My ex just chose to do this


                      • What was the status quo _PRIOR_ to the separation ? Where you guys married or living together with child ? Were you an equal parent ?

                        [14] The status quo is the one that existed prior to separation and not what is created after separation. See Kimpton v. Kimpton, 2002 CanLII 2793 (ON SC), 2002 CanLII 2793 (S.C.J.)
                        You have every Sunday or every other?


                        • My daughter recently turned 2.
                          Her mother decided she didn't want to be with me 2 weeks after our daughter was born. She mentioned she wanted to live with her parents after our daughter was born. A months before her birth I started moving my stuff into her parents house. So I was loosely living when them. We wete together for almost 10 years but never lived together during our relationship


                          • Right now I have every Sunday from 230 to 630

                            The judge said she thinks I should get more time now.
                            So I asked for 12-8

                            Ex responded it won't work and responded with an extra hour. I asked for more...she said 15 min. Reasoning to this that it doesn't work with our daughter's schedule and the transition has to be slow.

                            There is no court order for anything


                            • Why not something more realistic like I'd like to start having our daughter with me every other weekend on Saturday and Sunday from 10am to 5pm for a couple of months and see how that goes.


                              • So you've never had a chance to be a proper parent. You had begun the process of moving in with the mother during the pregnancy with the intention of being a fully involved father, and then she broke up with you right after the child was born and has controlled/monitored your access like a dictatorial gatekeeper ever since.

                                You need to make the point that you are not a sperm donor and intend to be an equal parent in your child's life. You do not need supervision; like all first-time parents you will master the learning curve if given a chance. You are not a stranger to the child; she has seen you weekly for her whole life and understands you are her father. A child being introduced to full-time daycare at one year old after maternity leave finishes happens much less gradually than your ex is suggesting for you.

                                Ask for joint custody, because you deserve just as much input into your child's future as her mother does.

                                Ask for full Sundays to start with, progressing to overnights, then to full alternating weekends within a reasonable schedule, say six months to a year. Then a plan to have 50-50 access by adding extra days around the time she starts school or something. Present a plan that considers both the desire for a gradual introduction but the expectation that it will go well. It's important to look organized and reasonable.

                                As for her not being able to accommodate extra hours on Sunday because of her schedule, that's ridiculous. There is nothing more important in the child's life than for her to have a reasonable amount of time with her father in order to get to know him.

                                Have you been fighting this for the whole two years?? Are there any valid reasons for you not to have joint custody and lengthy access?


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