Law and Disorder

[+parenting]

Just had my 2nd case conference on my claim which I started 2 years ago. We allowed the time to elapse and the claim was dismissed. I found this whole ordeal too stressful and thought as long as he's paying child support that I would not fight about s.7 expenses till he goes to university.

It's quite messy and covers a 4 year period. My ex husband just asked that I pay child support and section 7 expenses for our son who was diagnosed as bipolar in 2014. He will be 23 in September, spent the 2 years after high school doing nothing and has not had a relationship with me since July of 2015. The day he physically assaulted me .

In the past 4 years my ex has not paid for any s.7 expenses for our 16 year old, has not paid child support since September of 2016. Any judge we have been in front up until today has been in my favour. I had two temporary orders issued and have been pretty positive.

Today's judge is retiring at the end of April. He set another day for us to get together in court and asked that we both come in with a list of s.7 expenses that we want and things we have paid for in the last 3 years. He's going to look at child support and s.7 expenses during this time for my ex and our 22 year old son. How is this fair?

I seriously doubt we will be able to accomplish anything during the next case conference. I can very easily provide a dr's note to postpone this for a few weeks due to my health, I'm surprised I made it to court today. I'm just afraid this judge is going to make some decision that I will be stuck with and is not fair. I noticed he had trouble keeping his thoughts in order. I really don't think he is fit. He is probably 75 years old. He actually had the one clerk in the courtroom call his wife to see if he was available for next Friday.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

[arabian]

My first thought is that both parents are responsible for the children they bring into the world.

Many parents/caregivers who have children with mental disorders are assaulted by their children.

With regards to the judge... it sounds that you want to cherry-pick a judge. If your matter goes to trial you will not have the same judge as you do in case conferences anyhow.

I see nothing unfair about a judge wanting to review the financials covering the past 3 years. If anything, I think that sounds quite reasonable. It might be deemed that you have shrugged off your financial responsibilities w.r.t. your older son. You may evade this judge but I would think that if the judge has to pass this file on to another judge due to his retirement that the new judge would very likely pick up where this judge left off.

Your situation is not unique. Judges have heard the same story over and over. One parent doesn't pay what he/she is supposed to pay and it creates something called "arrears." In your situation, if your ex hasn't paid you CS for the past year then everything might even out. This is likely what the judge is trying to determine.

[Berner_Faith]

I'm a little confused by your post but it appears you both have been skirting your responsibilities for your children. A child at 22 could very well still be a child of the marriage. If he had health issues and took a couple years off from school and is now going to university you may very well be on the hook for CS and S7 expenses. That being said, your ex would also be on the hook for CS and S7 expenses for your other child that lives with you. I believe in another thread you said your son got a certificate from college and is now heading to University. I'm not certain a certificate would constitute him no longer being a child of the marriage. Most orders and agreements state diploma or degree as certificates are often just upgrading ones education.

I agree with Arabian, the judge is most likely trying to see if there are any arrears. Does your ex make more than you? If he has had one child for 3 years then you would be in an offset situation. If you make more than him you could very well owe him CS. It's really a numbers game.

Tying to put this off with a Drs note isn't going to change the outcome. If you owe you owe. Go to court and get it dealt with so you can move on with your life


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[+parenting]

I guess I tried not to write a novel but pertinent information gets left out when you're trying to short and concise.

I don't believe in "Child of the Marriage" I believe in child for life. I have responsibilities to both my sons and those don't ever end but they change over time. My son who is 22 means the world to me but I have suffered such pain that I never imagined I would. When you have a child that is not well you feel their pain and suffer the pain with them.

When we first got separated my son (22) started rebelling, had police show up on my door step, would not go to school, would take off at night without his helmet and ride his bike for 3-5 km. I had my younger son with me as well and I had to work. My ex was not living with us now and living his bachelorhood. Not willing to sit down and discuss the bills, separation and divorce. At some point I could not take care of my eldest (he would not listen to me) so I told him "then go live with your father". It was a threat. I expected him to come running home in a week or two with an apology and a promise to make smarter decisions. Well the joke was on me.

(22) decided to stay with dad who had no rules worked shifts and was rarely home to bother him. A 16 year old with no rules. No bipolar. Dad saw the benefit of having (22) stay with him $$$. I tried to get him to come back home over the years and dad would make him feel guilty $$$. I even told him he would not have to pay extra child support. I just wanted to properly take care of my son. Set some rules and expectations.

(22) barely finished high school with a "C" and decided to go on a victory lap to get those grades higher. He did not attend his classes and did not earn a single credit. At this point his father had managed to alienate the child from me and I mourned our relationship daily. He got into college and went the following year. He did not attend and for the next 2 years did drugs, ecstasy, marijuana, smoked heavily, sold his prescription meds, did LSD and started to have hallucinations. His bipolar started shortly after. It cannot be proven but it is expected the LSD was the trigger. My ex could not take it anymore and kicked (22) out.

He went to live with my parents because I lived too far from his college. I ran to him 2-3 times a week to help him through his manic episodes. I paid to dress him, according to the lifestyle we had pre-separation. I paid for college, even when (22) blew his OSAP twice. I bought him books and even sent him on vacation because he had not been on one for 4 years and he would have had his father and I still been together. I sent him with his gf's family and her on a cruise. My ex declared him "no longer a child of the marriage" (did not file anything with the court) and just disregarded him. He started paying full guideline for (16) and for a year I was paying for both but (22) lived at my parents. I went into debt trying to put a smile on his face and to get his thoughts away from suicide.

After that year I urged (22) to either move in with me or his father. My parents had a 2 bedroom condo and my sister was sleeping with my mom and dad on the sofa so (22) can have my sister's room. He did not want to move neighbourhoods so he chose to move back in with his dad. Dad stopped paying s.7 expenses to I took him to court. Dad started crying to (22) again and told him he would have to provide a financial statement. He had filed false claims to increase the amount of OSAP (22) would get and he told my bipolar son who was not stable yet that he would have to pay back his OSAP and would not get any more. We were scheduled to meet to exchange children an hour later and dad asks (22) to talk to me and make me not file the claim in court. I told (22) I would help him pay back his OSAP and with his future costs for school as well. (22) was just not listening, such is his illness and he wound up and punched me in from of dad. Dad did nothing at all. That was the last time (22) spoke to me.

I continued to reach out to him and sent him e-transfers/gift cards for the next 2 years...till last week actually. I told (22) that I will help him with school but he has to be held accountable for his actions and needs to show respect towards me, himself and those around him.

During this entire time my ex and now partner of 4 years have called any attempt I made to settle out of court, ask for mediation, discuss access...harassment. Called the cops on me. If the situation was not in their favour then it would be labeled harassment and call the cops. Cops never did anything because they were being idiots. She's studying to be a paralegal and has made all the choices my ex has made over the past 4 years. INFURIATING to say the least. Yes he's that kind of man. I guess the bright side is he's hers.

Now he claims he wants support for the pas 2 years and s.7 expenses for this (22) year old that really has no goal other than take courses he likes. He's gone from marketing to liberal arts in college and then got into U of T and is taking philosophy and psychology. A decreased workload I think. He is not expected to work due to his illness, can't both work and go to school (which I agree is difficult), but I can't help but feel taken and this judge made no comments about my initial claim and my 16 year old son who is an "A" student, has been volunteering for years and his dad has gone from seeing him every 2nd weekend and Wednesdays to 4-6 times a year.

How long do a support a child who has failed my expectations of him...to be a decent human being and show some respect. His dad actually allowed him to buy his 40 hours of community service to graduate high school. Yes there is a black market for that too.

My health has suffered greatly and am now on medical retirement at 43. I have been belittled, harassed, emotionally and physically abused. I tried to help him the best way I knew how and this is what I get in court? Dad signed under oath that I have not paid anything toward (22's) education so I provided my VISA statement and judge said ok so you have contributed. Dad signed under oath that he had no idea son was bipolar when he kicked him out. I provided emails plus a record of medications which my drug plan covered...and judge said ok you guys clearly need to figure this out.

I'm just dumbfounded and don't know how to proceed. Just pay for anything they ask...which I was going to do anyway but with (22) apologizing and showing respect first and not forcefully by law.

Honestly I'm sure most people have some bad things to say about their ex and partners of ex's but this is just disgusting behaviour that the court is condoning. What does this tell my son (22). E N T I T L E M E N T

[arabian]

Wow you have been through the ringer !

I would proceed with court process and have ready a spreadsheet with everything you have paid for over the past 3 years. Courts deal with numbers and not emotions. That is their job...to separate the two. Emotions and feelings have to be dealt with by counselling community.

It seems both you and your ex have dabbled in self-help insofar as paying/not paying. Hopefully, through future case conferences, a very specific plan-of-action will be struck and the two of you will stick to it. Your ex and children can be unreasonable but you have to forge ahead and simply pay what you are supposed to pay and let them sink/swim.

I would recommend that you seek counselling to get help on sustaining a relationship with your children where you have precise personal boundaries. As a parent, I know this is not easy and our children (I like to refer to them as "guilt boxes") seem adept at manipulating us even when they are adults. You should perhaps recognize the early-onset of elder abuse and take steps to ensure that you don't find yourself in that situation some day.

[arabian]

I would add that it might be helpful if you envision the future. Wouldn't it be great if your 22-year-old someday says "Mom I just want to thank you for all you did for me... sorry for being an ahole."? If you keep forking over money, on a whim, this is unlikely to happen. However, if your son some day becomes self-sufficient and takes responsibility for himself you will be very happy.

I'd refocus on your initial reasoning for starting the litigation - money and definition of "child of the marriage." If your 22 yr old is not successfully pursuing an academic path which will lead to independence and self-sufficiency you would have grounds to have him declared no longer a child of the marriage. The court is fairly specific on the criteria. I don't think court would have his financial support abruptly ended though. Probably a judge would specify that your son would have to succeed in his studies and give son a time limit to get his shit together. However, be aware that if your son is suffering from a debilitating mental illness he may still be a child of the marriage as he has not lived on his own and still needs parental financial assistance. In that case, it would be interesting to find out when a child with mental disability becomes responsibility of the province/social services. I'm sure there is case law on this.

[+parenting]

I'm drained.

Actually at 18 he qualifies for ODSP. And I would do anything to equip this kid with whatever I can to succeed in life. It just kills me that I'm satan in his eyes and those poor excuse for human beings are the primary reason he has behaved so badly. He never reacted this way under my roof. He just enjoys the easy way out.

[arabian]

As with many other families (intact or divorced) my ex and I had an ongoing disagreement on how to raise our son. I didn't like his hard-ass approach of constant screaming and (from my perspective) bullying. Now, many years later, I often wonder if I coddled my son too much... if I had been stricter would he have been more successful... perhaps my ex was right.

The thing is, hindsight is futile unless you are raising another kid with the same person. Best to accept that we all make mistakes and to move forward. Accept the fact that you did the best you could do at the time. Don't beat yourself up. Blaming your ex won't help either. You and your ex made the decision to separate. Some kids improve some are held back a bit until they can become independent and get away from the toxicity of being pawns of parents.

Get the finances sorted out and don't look back. Focus on your own life now.