8 Weeks separated and she wants everything now!

[westwood]

Going through a separation, wife started affair, and immediately moved in with new partner, leaving children with me 100% and since we were a two income family, very difficult to make ends meet at the end of every month. She wants all she is entitled to… NOW! Half assets, RRSP/pension, cash for half house market value, and alimony. She also wants to make sure she only pays the minimum child support required. No place for children in her new life. A little concerned / worried because it seems that everything I hear or read basically states that, although I did nothing wrong I will be the one to pay, (along with my children), while her lifestyle improves not diminishes as a result of her affair. My salary about $85K hers $40K. It would be nice to get some feedback and find out if there are any options. It seems that the law and family courts have nothing to do with fairness or deserving. I met with a lawyer and she was pretty straight forward about the process. She told me if this goes to trial the judges will take certain things into account but nothing is guaranteed.

All I’m hoping is that I can keep our home and get my 2 teenagers through post-secondary education (4-5 years). I’m also hoping I can salvage something with the remainder of my life. I tried reasoning with her and come up with a solution by refinancing and getting her half now, then the other half after the kids are done school but she doesn’t think she should have to wait. The value of our home tripled in 10 years so I’ll need to come up with $140,000 to pay out her share of the home. I may be able to qualify for the mortgage but I’d be running a monthly deficit of about $700 - $1000 even after she pays child support.

Can anyone provide input on a couple questions?
1. How long can I wait before I have to do anything? Can she force the sale of the home? Is there a chance I can hold off till the kids are done with post secondary school?

2. Will the alimony basically cancel out any child support she owes, or is it common for a judge to look at the overall picture and the standard of living of both parties? Besides the basic child support there is the Sect 7 items such as education, orthodontist, and extra curricular activities. My children are heavily into sports while other neighborhood kids are heavily into hanging in the park. Taking this away would not be beneficial to the children at all.

3.Does the Undue hardship clause come into play here? There is a ton of income at the other household and no dependants.

I appreciate any input I can get. I'm trying to limit the lawyer time to a minimum, especially since I'm cash strapped.

[FL_Needs_To_Change]

leaving children with me 100% and since we were a two income family, very difficult to make ends meet at the end of every month.

I am of the understanding that if you have the children, and she is working, has always worked, and therefore contributed to the expenses etc 50/50 while together, than she is not be entitled to spousal support as you did not support her during the relationship. That is you each basically supported yourselves and shared the raising of the children and household expenses.

But you most certainly are deserving of CS for the children, and that is based on her income alone, and if they are young you can ask for proportionate share of extra expenses like day care, medical and dental, any rather pricy things that young children require that are beyond the ability of one parent to pay. You had 2 incoms prior to the separation, than there is a status quo with regards to what the children enjoyed during the relationship which the courts would expect and want to maintain even after the break up, and the mom is responsible for that too, it doesn’t stop because she left the kids with you.

her lifestyle improves not diminishes as a result of her affair.

NB if you have an honest situation of undue hardship you can claim for an increase to the table CS amount. I would think that if she is now in a relationship enjoying a higher standard of living that she has the "ability" to pay more given "her household" standard of living relative to yours.
But the new bf would have to make significantly more than you do right now for that to be the case. Be careful with Undue hardship, one because it is a difficult thing to prove in the best of scenarios and the court may see you as trying to get vengeance through monetary gain.

All I’m hoping is that I can keep our home and get my 2 teenagers through post-secondary education (4-5 years).

She will also be responsible for her proportionate share of post secondary expenses also, for the first University degree or first college diploma.

My children are heavily into sports while other neighborhood kids are heavily into hanging in the park. Taking this away would not be beneficial to the children at all.

Again, if they enjoyed this kind of ativity prior to the break they are entitled to maintain the same after. And yes she is responsible to help cover the costs relative to her income.

See this site for info on Undue Hardship,

http://www.4famlaw.com/undue.htm
As far as her request for spousal support I would advise that this is something you'd have to research as it seems very odd since, you both worked, and she has left the children with you to enjoy a new life with purportedly better standard of living??

[Decent Dad]

Well, you have many things going for you:

1) You have the kids. lucky you. Ths should avoid a $40K battle. Since your ex has not stated an custody or access demands... Keep 'em. The kids are old and sounds like heading to university anyway... so a shared custody situation does not make sense here. If you can, keep this simplified, out of the courts and don't either of you use them as leverage, bargaining chips, etc.

2) Child Support. Yes you are entitled... but I personally am not a big fan of CS when "kids" of adult age, even in school, are the cause of receiving support. CS should stop at 18. You decide what to do here... CS does not equal mortgage payment.

3) Spousal. She can apply... but I seriously doubt she will get it. In fact, you could also counter request for spousal support. Seriously, go for it. What's good for the goose... kind of thing. It may take the wind out of her fight. Don't give in on giving her SS.

It is very hard to mainting a duel-income household, now under one income... plus you will assume a bigger mortgage if you buy her out. It sucks... but you may have to sell the home. And she can force the sale... or at least force her half. Sounds like you are in AB... I know in Ontario you use an equalization process, so everything is not actually split 50-50... just the house. Assets and debt before and after marriage are factored in. Although in a long-term marriage it might end up being 50-50.

Yes, judges look at everything. Especially in spousal support issues. So her new mate's income is a factor. You can also file for undue hardship. Might as well..

Don't rush into anything. If she is in the big hurry... only settle on your terms.

Keep asking questions here. FL_needs to_change sees it all. LV is a whiz at law. And I have been knee-deep in court for 150 years... post away!

[Sk8r]

You don't have to give her anything until a court tells you to. You have the kids, you have the home. From where I'm standing it looks like you hold all the cards.

Family Law is a looooong drawn out process. You could keep things just the way are for quite a long time.

My spouses ex-wife is queen at this. Do nothing, keep exactly what you want.

I am not suggesting it is what you should do, but just letting you know that you won't have to be selling your house in the next 3 weeks. And you certainly don't need to be giving her any cash.

[FL_Needs_To_Change]

WestWood

I post based on experience.
I got out of a 15+ year relationship with my life, literally, and that turned ugly in the family court room and criminal court too.

My new guy has been in the same sh** that Decent Dad has been through and like he said, it feels like we've been doing and fighting forever!

FL is not all it's cut out to sound like, it really is biased against the dad's but in your case I pray it's not true and things work out for you. I'd go with Decent Dad, with respect to taking it at your pace, and only agree when it feels right to you.
Seek SS and CS, and if need be Undue hardship too

Just keep asking the questions & you're sure to find the answers.

[jlalex]

As I read your post it occured to me that you should request spousal support for yourself. There is the precedent of standard of living - meaning if you can no longer maintain your standard of living you enjoyed while married because of the seperation...you may be entitled to spousal..which has been the traditional guideline..as well as the new guideline of needs vs means..you have need and she has means..you may also qualify under these guidelines as well.

Family court can take years to sift through issues..my own divorce took over 7 years and there was not even any property to divide...

Normally I wouldn't suggest being ruthless and I would encourage every effort to be civil and work things out amicably, but I have to say it seems to me that your ex is in desperate need of a reality check.

You have just as much right to ask for all those things that is traditionally sought after by ex-wives..and I think you should. It doesn't mean you will necessarily get it, but perhaps it may have an effect of civility and a desire to negotiate from your ex once she realizes that she may be obligated to provide child support, spousal support and section 7 expenses. Not to mention having to wait a good year or two before the sale of the home occurs.


I hope all works out well for you..hang in there..it is a long road to travel.

[tombiosis]

Gosh, I feel for you man!
All I can say is make all your decisions with your kid's best interest in mind, and pray that things will work out.
Remember, The Lord knows, and karma is a wonderful and powerful thing.
Everything happens for a reason.
Hang in there...better days ahead for sure.

[westwood]

What steps need to be taken?

When I stumbled across this site a couple weeks ago it was like finding an oasis in the middle of the desert. There's a ton of information here for the lost and confused. It's the "unknown" that's killing me, when you've never been through this experience it's hard to know what to expect. All this information is very much appreciated.

Right now both our paycheques are deposited into separate accounts which we both have access. The account my pay goes into covers our day-to-day living expenses while the mortgage comes out of the account her pay is deposited. I'm assuming she will soon be informing me she will not be paying the mortgage anymore!

I'd like to know what steps my wife is going to have to take to force the sale of our home? Also, when does someone start paying child support, and how is this done.

[FL_Needs_To_Change]

westwood

Best advice is not to wait for her to make the first move all the time.
In some cases that is good advice as it’s not good to stir the pot.
But financially, or anything involving payments, CS, SS, personal money, etc I’d take the first step to “try” to maintain the upper hand and stay one step ahead so not to loose your shirt.

I would get a separate account for all your day-to-day expenses so she has does not have access to your money, better safe than sorry. Leave the old account for a while so she thinks you simply drained it to pay bills. Keep a minimal amount there and have your pay cheques re-directed to the new account. You’ll have to leave the old account open anyway until the first pay is deposited to make sure everything is ok there.

Then ask what your options are for the mortgage. If you are still permitted to access her account you can ask about information pertaining to it.
If you are not on the account, you can still ask general questions about the mortgage as I assume both names are on that. Ask what your options are, make sure they have general info about the split. IE I’d tell them you have separated, that you are not sure how things will play out but ask about responsibilities should she not make payments or if she wants to change her banking as you have done. My assumption is that is both names are on the mortgage then both needed to sign to have the payments automatically withdrawn from her account. I’m making all these based on both names on the mortgage. Do not confuse both names on ownership with both on the account. And I’ll tell you why. In my case, both names are on the registry at city hall as both owning the home and property; all legal both signed etc. But my name is not on the actual mortgage. The payments come from a joint account owned primarily by me. Here is the most stupid part, when I have a question about the actual mortgage loan, they will not give me info, I must have written permission from my husband, or he has to ask. Funny how financial institutions will take your money for payment but suddenly they have ethics when you want info on the things you are paying and have been paying for more than 11 years. Anyway, make sure that if she makes any default on the mortgage you are immediately notified so that your credit is not affected and most important you do not loose the home because of it. She would have to be in serious default to loose the house, but you understand what I’m saying. If they understand your situation and the separation they may make extra effort to keep you in the loop and help you out so you can maintain the house.

As far as forcing the sale, she’d have to be primary owner or living else where with the children asking for a separation of matrimonial property for their best interests etc. You have the children living in the home; it’s the same as if you were the mom. If mom stayed in the home with the kids the court would not right away force the sale, as that would harm the children on many levels. I have not had experience in this area, when I left my ex I left everything, only left with the cloths on my back and my kids. When my husband left his wife, (although this is the home they lived in for the first 6 months they were married) he ultimately ended up with the house. You’ll have to seek info from one of the many other informative members. Maybe LV has advice on this one.

[Beaudoin]

I feel your pain. I'm going through the same thing.

Your situation seems much better than my own. The thing that you really have going for you is that she left you with the children. Like others have noted, not having to get into a custody battle certainly works in your favor, and because you are the one taking care of them, it makes your ability to protect yourself all the better (in my very humble opinion).

Family law certainly needs to change drastically. Too many people are using it as a means to gain extra income at the expense of the welfare of children.

[Taestoy]

Here's a good one.....

Even if a person works and contributes to the household they are still entiled to spousal support, for an example my cousin makes close to $70,000 a year her hubby left her for someone else, her lawyer told her she is entitled to an extra $800 a month on top of the $2300 a month child support he has to pay for the 2 kids (he makes over $200,000 per year) and even through she does very well with her income herself it's because the lawyer told her the ex has to maintain the same lifestyle she has been accustomed to for the last 10 years so that's where the extra $800 a month would come in, it doesn't matter if they work or don't and how much they make here's a good example of that so beware! Of course my cousin didn't take the extra as she does well herself and is such a non-selfish person so she doesn't require it and said no she justs wants the whole mess over with already.

[FL_Needs_To_Change]

I would still think that the case with the cousin at 70k VS a husband at 200K is not exactly the same as a wife at 40k and a husband at 85k.

Taestoy, you have a valid point with the standard of living previously enjoyed. For this case $200,000 less $2,300 x 12months (CS) = $172,000. With an award of $800/month results in the payer at $162,000 gross and the recipient @$79,600 gross. But what I do not agree on, is that the payer has to pay taxes on the money used to calculate support, and gets no tax relief, and the recipient does not have to claim it at all. I understand that the money was already taxed once and should not be taxed a second time in the hands of the recipient. But there should never have been a removal of the credits available at tax time for the payer.

But this case (for westwood) the wife earns less than he does. So unless he claims an undue hardship, he may not be entitled to equalization as equalization would mean he was paying her as his income is higher. Undue Hardship is the only way to include all household income and prove the wife has a higher standard of living, which would result possibly in a higher award of CS

Just being the devil's advocate, no hard feelings.

[Taestoy]

Yes For Sure

The only thing I find hard to understand is why would someone pay tax on money that is meant for a child's care? And I just wanted to get my situation out there so people can see that even though a spouse works and contributes that doesn't mean spousal support is cancelled out, I was shocked and stunned when I heard my cousin was entitled to that extra even when she made excellent money. The taxes that are paid on the child support money from the payor are off his pay checks and I know in the past the receipent had to pay tax on it as it was considered income. You would think that maybe they would have something where the payor could claim them as the dependents even if they weren't living there because of the amount being payed for them in support. Maybe things will change down the road you never know. I think in the past it was a women who fought for this change I can't remember the specifics but from what I remember she fought to change this law and it was passed. I wonder if someone else could fight to have it changed back??? Something to think about My cousins lawyer figured out that in the end my cousin will be making close to what her ex is with all the support in the end unreal really.