Fro

[JRSDad]

My ex had the strangest request for me. She asked that I register my child support payments with the FRO. I asked her why? she just said it's more convenient. I reminded her that I pay on time every month for the past several years. I have never been late because it's already an automatic withdrawal from my bank.

I then realized she had heard from a friend that they are doing lay offs at my work. I don't think I'm on the chopping block but ya never know. We do the set off approach and I am the higher income earner and I end up paying her. My guess is that she is afraid that I may ditch my child support obligations. she has never admitted that this is the reason but I just don't get it and she still can't come up with a good reason except that it is what every divorced parent does regardless if they pay on time or not. I am in the 100% never miss a payment ever category so I don't see why I am being forced to subscribed to an FRO.

Anyhow, I went on the website and I see that you need an order every time you change the amounts. So I'm not interested in it because I can't predict the future and we are suppose to change information yearly, what a waste of time and money to go to the courts every year to have this changed.

does anyone have information as to why divorce people opt for FRO to distribute their support rather than on their own. Can she force me to do this?

thanks for your help

[rockscan]

Some people do it to avoid the drama but mostly because of payment issues. You will have issues if your income changes or if she isnt so easy to work with. Tell her no you pay on time and arent concerned. If she wants to file she can but let her do the work!

[Beachnana]

Strange that she would ask you to do it. If she wants to use FRO then it's up to her to submit the paperwork. If she does then you would receive a notice from FRO and instructions on what to do.

DO NOT PAY ANY MORE MONEY DIRECTLY TO HER if you receive notice of that she has registered with FRO. Start paying it to FRO. The process then takes 2-3 months to start sending her money. If she screws up the paperwork it takes longer. If you query anything it takes longer. So bless you for paying on time and ignore her request.

[Janus]

I am in the 100% never miss a payment ever category so I don't see why I am being forced to subscribed to an FRO.

FRO exists to help recipients get money. It has nothing to do with you or what you have done. It is not a punishment for bad behavior. You will simply start paying them instead of your ex.

Anyhow, I went on the website and I see that you need an order every time you change the amounts.

The orders can be on consent which aren't too difficult. Assuming CS is increasing, you can make your ex responsible for the paperwork. If CS is decreasing, you will likely be responsible for paperwork, and possibly the resulting motion because recipients rarely play nice when CS is getting reduced.

does anyone have information as to why divorce people opt for FRO to distribute their support rather than on their own.

If I was a recipient I would totally use FRO. Why not? Beyond the fact that I get to stick it to my ex, there is a pretty good chance that I would get some extra payments after CS ends that I would get to keep. Bonus!

Can she force me to do this?

She can't force you to do the paperwork, but of course she can force you to pay FRO. If the payors had to agree, then no payor in their right mind would agree, and FRO would be useless.

As a extra kick in the ass, you'll have to pay a $50 registration fee for FRO.

[JRSDad]

we exchange income yearly and the amount always changes, my income is up and down based on my commissions. So does this mean I have to get an order from the court every year to change the amount?

also, can I say NO I don't want to do it this way? or do the courts force it once she does the paperwork? I just don't understand why I need a middle man, I just do an auto transfer to her for 12 months each year. Not sure what the benefit of FRO is other than extremely more paperwork for no reason.

thanks for all the input!

[Janus]

I'm going to guess you didn't actually read my response. You wanted to reiterate how annoyed you were, and nothing was going to get in your way of pulling that off.

amirite?

[JRSDad]

Yeah pretty annoyed by the request. I was confused about your comment

"She can't force you to do the paperwork, but of course she can force you to pay FRO."

So if I don't do the paperwork then how can FRO force me?

If I am transferring money to her automatically every month, why would FRO make me pay again? or I suppose she can decline my transfers.

[Beachnana]

As Janus has stated FRO is there to ensure everyone pays. It's a slow inefficient process. She is a fool to go to FRO if you are paying fairly.

Do you have a SA which states an amount you must pay? Is it less or more,than you are currently paying?

FRO will only enforce what the order states is the amount to be paid. Literally they will not make any calculation, any interpretation. If your current order says you will pay $800 per month that is what they will collect.

It will take, as I said before, at least 2-3 months to set up. In the meantime you Stop paying her and put the money aside and when FRO says pay this amount you pay it.

If the amount on your SA is less than what you should be paying she will have to process a consent motion to increase it. That will take another month.

Let her do it. If you have a reduction in your income next June, you will submit a consent motion and you would start paying only the amount you need to,pay until the motion is signed.

If she refuses to sign then You go,see a judge and he will sign it and you can ask for costs.

You would only pay what you owe given your income. You can go into $3000 in arrears until they do anything.

She is a twit, so let her burying herself in the bog of FRO. It will make no difference to you.

[stripes]

Why not use FRO? The upside: you don't have to deal with your ex again, you just pay a bureaucracy who pays her. The downside: if your income changes, you have to do some paperwork to adjust the FRO withdrawal.

I'm guessing your ex is concerned that you'll stop paying or reduce payments abruptly if you're laid off. FRO is her insurance that that won't happen. It may irritate you because you have a record of paying regularly, but I can see her position, especially if you're anywhere near the oil & gas industry. Let her do all the work and open a file with FRO.

[arabian]

I'd use FRO. If you do lose your job you can negotiate with FRO for a temporary lower payment along with a plan for make-up payments on any arrears (you don't have to go to court for that).

If you use FRO you don't have to deal with your ex. I see now that Ontario FRO is going online. This will make it much easier for people to get year-end reports for tax time etc.

[Beachnana]

FRO is online. Your caseworker will set you up.

[rockscan]

You cant negotiate anything with FRO. You pay whats in the order filed and if after that you have a bad year, you need a new order because your ex will NOT agree to lowered payments.

Tell her no, they system you have is working fine. If she wants FRO so badly she can file it herself.

[arabian]

I know from personal experience that payors can indeed negotiate temporary "arrangements" with maintenance enforcement agencies. It generally costs some money but in Alberta, for example, many people are out of work due to either the oil industry debacle or the situation in Ft. McMurray. People who are unable to make their regular support payments can make arrangements with the maintenance enforcement agency. THIS IS FOR PEOPLE WHO FIND THEMSELVES TEMPORARILY UNEMPLOYED due to layoff, or another personal crisis. No court order is required. Maintenance enforcement agencies across Canada parrot each other insofar as operational procedures.

Of course there are deadbeats who take advantage of the various regional economic downturns. It is important to note that maintenance enforcement agencies cannot change court orders or wipe out arrears; they can temporarily modify by making payment arrangements with the debtor. Debtors have to complete detailed, lengthy financial statements and are often required to pay a substantial fee and have their statements notarized. Some debtors have to go through a financial examination (I personally think they are too lax in this area).

My point is, I think one should be proactive and think ahead. By being registered with a maintenance enforcement agency, you have the ability to negotiate some "terms" should you face a financial disaster. If you are not enrolled with FRO you would have to go to court to get a change in your support payment schedule. This can be a lengthy process, particularly in Ontario. I think it would be prudent to register with FRO so that should you lose your job you would be 3 months ahead-of-the game instead of waiting for the inevitable... risking collection actions (garnishee, license suspension, etc.).

Also, a person should give serious thought to the fact that you might be getting along with your ex NOW but what about the future? You can still have automatic payments made monthly to your ex.... just the name of the payee is changed.

Oh and to answer your question as to whether your ex can force you to go through FRO - YES. Once either of you register with FRO the support payments become the responsibility of FRO/MEP to administer.

[Tayken]

OP:

FRO isn't really a great option for you. You are correct in assuming that the other parent wants to use FRO and to establish a payment in case you resign or are let go from your position.

FRO will continue to collect the money until such time you produce an agreement that provide a new instruction or a court order.

Good luck getting an agreement if your income changes. You will have to go on motion to get an order which can take a long time. All while FRO is collecting from you.

Offset is something FRO hasn't gotten a handle on.

If FRO automatically got their income numbers from Revenue Canada and automatically updated CS correctly year-to-year then I would recommend them. But, too much agreement / orders need to be done year-to-year to make them effective.

A bunch of judges have been slamming FRO as of late. Take a look in CanLII. the pattern of using FRO as a weapon (as suggested by Janus) is becoming very obvious to judges these days.

[Tayken]

I'm guessing your ex is concerned that you'll stop paying or reduce payments abruptly if you're laid off. FRO is her insurance that that won't happen. It may irritate you because you have a record of paying regularly, but I can see her position, especially if you're anywhere near the oil & gas industry. Let her do all the work and open a file with FRO.

Why? So he can have to go through a costly and lengthy motion to get a change put in place to stop FRO from collecting when the other parent refuses to consent to a change in income?