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  • 50/50 for 2year old

    Hi,

    I've been doing lot's of reading/research on this site. I've found very useful articles and CanLii references.

    Here's my situation:

    I have two young children Age4 and Age2.

    She left when A2 was 2months old.

    Been through the legal gears, CC, SC and now going to 2nd SC.

    OCL has been involved.

    OCL recommend no overnights until A2 is 2.5

    I want 50/50

    I'm looking for case law on A2 children who get 50/50

    I'm not sure I put enough details here, if not please ask and i'll clarify.

    THIS IS A BRUTAL PROCCESS

  • #2
    Originally posted by otttawa_dad View Post
    Hi,

    I've been doing lot's of reading/research on this site. I've found very useful articles and CanLii references.

    Here's my situation:

    I have two young children Age4 and Age2.

    She left when A2 was 2months old.

    Been through the legal gears, CC, SC and now going to 2nd SC.

    OCL has been involved.

    OCL recommend no overnights until A2 is 2.5

    I want 50/50

    I'm looking for case law on A2 children who get 50/50

    I'm not sure I put enough details here, if not please ask and i'll clarify.

    THIS IS A BRUTAL PROCCESS
    Read my recent threads. Also, if you are in Toronto go to the court house and pull all of Justice Czutrin's recent cases... You will probably find a few examples of him ordering 2-2-3 based 50-50 access schedules for children as young as 18 months.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm in Ottawa

      Can you post a link to your thread?

      Thanks

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by otttawa_dad View Post
        I'm in Ottawa

        Can you post a link to your thread?

        Thanks
        If you are going to be successful you are going to have to be significantly more resourceful.

        Here is the thread:

        http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...ng-case-19840/

        Comment


        • #5
          You can get 2/2/3 there is no legal reason to not grant equal shared access to kids JUST because they are young.

          However I wouldn't die on the hill of 6 months, ask for an order to get graduated access so that at 2.5 years it is 50/50

          Good luck

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks for providing me the link.

            As for being resourceful, asking for help is part of this.



            Originally posted by Tayken View Post
            If you are going to be successful you are going to have to be significantly more resourceful.

            Here is the thread:

            http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...ng-case-19840/

            Comment


            • #7
              Just got back from the SC, the judge didn't want to recommend 50/50 and obviously my ex is good with this.

              This is based on the OCL report. A2 is to have overnight from 2.5yrs

              The judge also suggested we review the access in 12month when A2 turns 3.

              He also said going to trail is like a crap shoot. Depending on what judge I get I could win or loose. It's lot's of $ to gamble.

              I'm kind of stuck... not sure I should agree to this (precedence) or take the risk and head to trial.

              Comment


              • #8
                Did you dispute the OCL report formally?

                When my OCL report was complete (I had a bias, lunatic of a worker) I did a formal dispute of her findings. At my court hearings I asked that the judge not consider the OCL report at all due to the bias, outlandish crap she was saying (i.e - men shouldn't give daughters baths), and that if the judge were to consider the report that he also read the formal dispute I attached. The judge basically spit on the report and loved the formal refute.

                It really is too bad judges rely so heavily on these schmucks (guess I shouldn't generalize but I had a terrible experience, as did WorkingDad and a bunch of others).

                If you want 50/50 my friend ... you never give up. You're here looking for info, drudging through the paperwork in court, taking time off work ... so we already can postulate that you're a good dad. The KIDS deserve to have you 50/50 .. regardless of what any bias OCL person says.

                Furthermore, there's something called the "Maximum Contact Principle" in family law. I adore this principle. Judges respect it and apply it all the time.

                Get your caselaw, evidence, etc (ducks in a row) and yes you will go to trial if that's what it takes. These are your children and they deserve to see you 50/50 minimum. That is their right. You shouldn't have to prove why 50/50 is should happen. The onus will be on your ex to prove why it shouldn't.

                I wrote a thread on 50/50 Maximum Contact. I just won 50/50 through sheer patience, being reasonable and child-centered.

                Check it out: http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...eration-18320/

                Never Give Up,

                LF32

                Comment


                • #9
                  I did dispute the OCL report, they came back saying it was valid.

                  My point is this report was based on people who were biased and feed her BS.

                  Therefore the report is inaccurate and in my opinion invalid. On top of that the people who provided input on the report aren't even on the EX's witness list she prepared in the event we went to trial. Isn't that odd if they were so crucial to generate this report?

                  I'm sure we could prove this quickly.

                  We are at the Settle or Trail option.

                  I'm soo unsure what to do.

                  I want my Children... They want to be with me; A4 expresses it already.

                  It sooo frustrating...the system is still broken.

                  Originally posted by LovingFather32 View Post
                  Did you dispute the OCL report formally?

                  When my OCL report was complete (I had a bias, lunatic of a worker) I did a formal dispute of her findings. At my court hearings I asked that the judge not consider the OCL report at all due to the bias, outlandish crap she was saying (i.e - men shouldn't give daughters baths), and that if the judge were to consider the report that he also read the formal dispute I attached. The judge basically spit on the report and loved the formal refute.

                  It really is too bad judges rely so heavily on these schmucks (guess I shouldn't generalize but I had a terrible experience, as did WorkingDad and a bunch of others).

                  If you want 50/50 my friend ... you never give up. You're here looking for info, drudging through the paperwork in court, taking time off work ... so we already can postulate that you're a good dad. The KIDS deserve to have you 50/50 .. regardless of what any bias OCL person says.

                  Furthermore, there's something called the "Maximum Contact Principle" in family law. I adore this principle. Judges respect it and apply it all the time.

                  Get your caselaw, evidence, etc (ducks in a row) and yes you will go to trial if that's what it takes. These are your children and they deserve to see you 50/50 minimum. That is their right. You shouldn't have to prove why 50/50 is should happen. The onus will be on your ex to prove why it shouldn't.

                  I wrote a thread on 50/50 Maximum Contact. I just won 50/50 through sheer patience, being reasonable and child-centered.

                  Check it out: http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...eration-18320/

                  Never Give Up,

                  LF32

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    DO NOT CONSENT - DO NOT CONSENT - DO NOT CONSENT.

                    If you consent you will never get shared custody. Only agree to the 12 month term if the language is such that the presumption will be that you get shared custody in 12 months.

                    Offer graduated access terminating at shared custody and die on that hill. Its a good hill to die on.


                    Unless there is a tangible reason why it shouldn't be shared do not accept.

                    Self-representing won't cost you anything and its not as hard as you think.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Links17 View Post
                      DO NOT CONSENT - DO NOT CONSENT - DO NOT CONSENT.

                      If you consent you will never get shared custody. Only agree to the 12 month term if the language is such that the presumption will be that you get shared custody in 12 months.

                      Offer graduated access terminating at shared custody and die on that hill. Its a good hill to die on.


                      Unless there is a tangible reason why it shouldn't be shared do not accept.

                      Self-representing won't cost you anything and its not as hard as you think.
                      Listen to Links here^^^^^

                      No consenting to anything you're not comfy with. Conference judges just want everybody to say okay and close the file. His/Her "suggestion" that you shouldn't have 50/50 can be disregarded. Judge may also not agree with your favorite NHL team. Who cares!

                      Motion/Trial judges are what matter. Yep, those endorsements from conferences are indeed significant .. but not the endgame.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Links17 View Post
                        DO NOT CONSENT - DO NOT CONSENT - DO NOT CONSENT.

                        If you consent you will never get shared custody.
                        This.

                        If you do not get shared custody now, and you consent to not get shared custody, then you will never get shared custody. You create a status quo where you do not have custody. The child "thrives" (as they would in pretty much any custody scenario, thrive basically means no CAS involvement). A thriving child creates a situation that a judge will not change.

                        X years from now, the judge can either take a risk and bring in shared custody, or keep with the situation that works. I have almost never seen a judge take the risk.

                        If you do not get shared custody now, you will likely never get it. Never. It does not matter how awesome you are and how shitty mom is. If you do not get shared custody now, you will never get it. This is the time to fight.

                        Even if you lose, at least it was ordered against you, so you never agreed that mom was a better parent. If you consent, then you are on record saying that you suck as a parent and it is better that you not be the real parent.

                        Only agree to the 12 month term if the language is such that the presumption will be that you get shared custody in 12 months.

                        Offer graduated access terminating at shared custody and die on that hill. Its a good hill to die on.
                        Again, I agree completely.

                        This isn't a joke. It is worse than you think.

                        If you do not get shared custody, mom can move the kids to the other side of the country if she feels like it. (Custodial parents almost always win mobility cases)

                        If you do not get shared custody, mom can alienate the kids at will, and the courts will not stop her.

                        If you are not a custodial parent, then you lose every court case for the next two decades.

                        If you are not the custodial parent, and you miraculously win a case, she will not have to pay costs because it will hurt the kids.

                        As Link said, this is an existential fight. This is the hill to die on. Not two years from now when things are better. This is actually the best it is ever going to be. Even financially this is the best it is ever going to get. Fighting your ex while you give her all of your disposable income does not work. Now or never.

                        Fight, or lose your kids.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I completely agree: Do Not Consent.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by otttawa_dad View Post
                            Just got back from the SC, the judge didn't want to recommend 50/50 and obviously my ex is good with this.

                            This is based on the OCL report. A2 is to have overnight from 2.5yrs

                            The judge also suggested we review the access in 12month when A2 turns 3.

                            He also said going to trail is like a crap shoot. Depending on what judge I get I could win or loose. It's lot's of $ to gamble.

                            I'm kind of stuck... not sure I should agree to this (precedence) or take the risk and head to trial.
                            WHAT??? No overnights until 2.5 years old, review when child is 3? DO NOT SETTLE!!

                            I was able to get overnight visits with my child by 15 months old after not laying eyes on him until he was 6 months old. S2 is now just 2.5 years old and has been having weekly overnights with me for more than a year and every other weekend is two overnights in a row.

                            I am a never married "young" father who didn't ever cohabit with my child's mother. We split when she was pregnant and she hid the child from me until I dragged her into court for paternity testing.

                            I had false allegations of domestic and child abuse thrown at me and had to fight criminal charges of "historical" assault cooked up by my ex. As soon as the criminal charges were withdrawn by the crown with no conditions, I brought a motion for overnight access in family court and won. It was another full year before we had a final settlement.

                            I did take an accredited 6 week course on Parenting Young Children and attended the early years centre every week with my son from the time I was granted access. Because of my age and lack of parenting experience, my parents also attended court and submitted affidavits that they would provide guidance and backup to me when caring for my son when needed.

                            P.S. I self-repped in family court and eventually got everything that was in my initial application. It took two years and many court appearances but I now have shared custody and joint decision making for S2 (mom does have primary residence) but it is in our order that the agreement has to be renegotiated next year.

                            Don't settle and lose this valuable time to bond with your little one!!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Let me be clear do not consent to anything that doesn't result in 50/50 shared residency (not only shared legal custody).

                              The time of sole custody/residency mothers is over, it is just for you to take it.

                              Anything less than 50/50 shared residency as Janus has explained has significant risks associated with it.

                              Comment

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