Email threats from his lawyer

[ele110]

So today is Monday and I do not start work until 3pm. I thought it would be great to spend the day with my daughter before I went into work. I have not seen her since Friday at 8am.

I called the daycare and asked if dad dropped her off so I could come pick her up. They said yes, but said they would not release her to me.

I asked why, they said they have a court order (aka our signed agreement) and that they met with dad and he informed them that Monday is his day, even when he is at work at that he is not to release her to me without his permission.

I was shocked, can a daycare really prevent a joint custody parent from seeing their child? All the agreement says is that he is responsible to get her to daycare. It does not say that Monday is "his" day (so possessive, since when are children possessions?)

It also says he is to pick her up on Monday after work from daycare.

So how is it that daycare can act as the law? Is it bad of me to go it, take her and leave? Can they do anything to stop me?

If I go in with the police, will they not release her to me?

I don't believe the daycare has legal authority to prevent you from picking up the child. However, I strongly feel you should not interfere with the daycare arrangement. Let the kid have her day in the daycare, play with friends and enjoy the activities. It would be disruptive and disturbing for the child(as well as for the daycare) to be dropped off by dad than picked up by mom right after. All that because mom wants to see her. Let the kid have her day, enjoy you 'child free ' time, do something you would like to do for yourself and reunite happily when it is the time .

[rockscan]

Also, if you had shared 50/50 custody, you would go days without seeing your kids. This isnt any different. Nor is it different from having access where you dont see your kids until every other weekend. Pick your battles. Would you want your kid to be at daycare when another kids parents are fighting over access? Its disruptive and unnecessary. Yes your husband is being unreasonable but its not worth the fight. All it does is put your kid in the middle. Its his day and he decides what happens on his day. Let it go.

[stripes]

The daycare staff have a job to do. They don't want to be caught between squabbling parents. It's disruptive to the whole daycare centre to have a situation in which parent A drops the kid off and parent B shows up an hour later to take the kid out without telling parent A.

My understanding from having been on daycare boards is that they cannot prevent a parent with legal custody from removing a child, unless they have a court order which names the daycare specifically. However, they can make it clear that you and your ex bickering is not wanted on their premises, which is what they're doing here. If they've gone to the extent to telling you not to come to the building on Mondays, obviously they've identified both of you as a problem.

Leave the daycare out of it, don't pick up the kid except at the time when your order says you pick up the kid.

[Beachnana]

So he is totally unreasonable and inflexible. So read your SA and inform him you will adhere to the exact terms. Friday is off the table.

Do not have any more discussions on making changes, being his backup. Stick with the parental plan in place.

End of discussion.

[SuzieSunshine]

This may be crazy, but why not ask the father if you can spend time with the children today? If he says no, ask again the next time this situation comes up. If he repeatedly says no, then apply to the court if you feel that strongly about it.


So, in a bid to spend an extra few hours with your children, you are going to arrive with the police? Are you out of your mind?

Do you even care about your children at all?

Thank-you for the feedback Janus. I have asked repeatedly and he has repeatedly said no. Thus my only solution is a court order. It will take over a year and $50k+ to be able to spend and additional 5 hour with my child. Sounds like a great option to me!

No, I would not actually arrive or call the police, but I did call them and they did say they cannot enforce a court order or agreement without a enforcement clause.

I am just surprised that the daycare can enforce a court agreement and deny a joint custodial parent access to their child.

Daycare has even gone to the extent of not returning my calls and said that if I go to daycare to see her on a Monday they will not allow me into the building.

[Janus]

I was shocked, can a daycare really prevent a joint custody parent from seeing their child?

No, but a court order certainly can.

If you disagree with their interpretation of the court order, have your lawyer send them an angry lawyer letter.

So how is it that daycare can act as the law? Is it bad of me to go it, take her and leave? Can they do anything to stop me?

This may be crazy, but why not ask the father if you can spend time with the children today? If he says no, ask again the next time this situation comes up. If he repeatedly says no, then apply to the court if you feel that strongly about it.

If I go in with the police, will they not release her to me?

So, in a bid to spend an extra few hours with your children, you are going to arrive with the police? Are you out of your mind?

Do you even care about your children at all?

[SuzieSunshine]

So today is Monday and I do not start work until 3pm. I thought it would be great to spend the day with my daughter before I went into work. I have not seen her since Friday at 8am.

I called the daycare and asked if dad dropped her off so I could come pick her up. They said yes, but said they would not release her to me.

I asked why, they said they have a court order (aka our signed agreement) and that they met with dad and he informed them that Monday is his day, even when he is at work at that he is not to release her to me without his permission.

I was shocked, can a daycare really prevent a joint custody parent from seeing their child? All the agreement says is that he is responsible to get her to daycare. It does not say that Monday is "his" day (so possessive, since when are children possessions?)

It also says he is to pick her up on Monday after work from daycare.

So how is it that daycare can act as the law? Is it bad of me to go it, take her and leave? Can they do anything to stop me?

If I go in with the police, will they not release her to me?

[PeacefulMoments]

The agreement says to be flexible and work with the father for early pickups but that the actual pickup time specified is 5 pm I believe. I would suggest that if he wants the after school pickup instead of 5 pm on his Fridays, he gets them but you shouldn't have to be his backup plan. If he wants after school then he should be responsible every time on his Fridays, not have you waiting around on his Fridays to see if he will need you.

If Friday is the only day you don't work, maybe you could plan something for yourself on those alternate Fridays as you will still have the kids on your Fridays.

[blinkandimgone]

His time is his time, and he can choose to put the kids in daycare to facilitate working. It appears as though you may be trying to have the kids with you on his time to increase your time with them. If he were arranging daycare on your time, that would be different.

[SuzieSunshine]

Do you work from home? If they were with you, would they not also be in daycare? If you are working and he is also working, I fail to see how any fault or negative could be deduced here.

He has specifically said to me his weeks days are his time and if he wants to send them to daycare that is his choice and I am not allowed to pick them up at daycare when I do not work on his days. He has even gone to the extent of telling the daycare I am not allowed to pick them up on his days while he is at work.

He is purposely preventing the girls from spending time with me while he is at work and I am at home not working insisting that daycare is more important than spending time with me.

Then he is telling me Friday every other week is his day starting at 8am and if he wants the kids he gets them and if he doesn't I have to be available to take care of them because he is not paying for daycare.

[dinkyface]

Assuming you agree he can pick up kids, the next decision is childcare.

1) You get childcare (CON for both of you: you split the cost proportionally, of course)

or

2) You don't get childcare (CON for you: you run the risk that he gives you last moment notifications when he has to work). Presumably you are OK with advance notifications, since you are already caring for them (and want to) during that time.

You could go with #2, then if last minute notice becomes a problem, then you get childcare and he's on the hook for his share.

[HammerDad]

It is not one less transition because he picks up the first kid at my house on his Fridays and then goes to school and gets the other if he does early pickup. He could easily go to the school first then come to my house but he doesn't to deny me from seeing the oldest kid on his Fridays.

He doesn't come by your place on the Friday's because he has no reason to come to you house. You are missing the point that he doesn't want to interact with you unnecessarily. I could fathom picking up my kid from school and then going to my ex's place just to give them some quick face time together. You have plenty of time with the kids during your parenting time.

I have no emotional reasoning for having time for the kids. It is defined in the agreement as my time.

It is your time depending on the wording of the the subparagraph. Without knowing the exact wording it is hard to tell if you are required to approve picking up the kids early, or the ex must simply notify you that he is.

[quote] He has chosen to tell me it is his time when he has 2 days a week when the kids are in daycare that he choses to not spend with them and keep them in daycare while I am at work. [quote]

Do you work from home? If they were with you, would they not also be in daycare? If you are working and he is also working, I fail to see how any fault or negative could be deduced here.

His sole purpose of reducing my time with the kids and increase his is to define days that belong to him and increase his threshold of time so that he feels he is an equal parent.

He is an equal parent. Whether he gets the time or not.

He is not reorganizing his life/kids in best interest, he is trying to decrease time with myself to gain his time when not utilizing time other days of the week that is open.

That is your belief of why he is doing what he is doing. You likely have a negative opinion of your ex, which likely means you are going to see every decision made by the ex in a negative manner. Unless your ex has specifically said that they are doing to minimize your time with the kids, one shouldn't jump to conclusions. He may have said he is trying to maximize his time with the kids, which is not the same thing as trying to minimize you time..

[Links17]

Yes I would, and have offered that but he has declined my offer. He requests the agreement say he picks up at school on his Fridays and if by chance he has to work that I do the pickups and he lets me know. Thus if he has to work late by chance, he utilizes me as a backup plan because then he doesn't have to pay for daycare he may or may not require.

This is VERY reasonable but just add the condition that you do the pickup at YOUR discretion (i.e: if you are available).

I assume you get healthy child support because your ATM is working...

[SuzieSunshine]

It sounds like the issue might be not so much not wanting Dad to have more time with the kids as Dad playing fast and loose with the agreement - so I'm wondering if Mom would agree to an amendment to the agreement which would make it legit for Dad to pick up the kids early on alternate Fridays. If the agreement were amended to read something like "Dad shall pick up the kids as soon as he finishes work and the kids are finished school", then you'd have a situation in which

a) Dad has more time with kids, with fewer transitions;
b) Dad is still following the agreement and not acting as though it doesn't apply to him

Would Mom consider amending the agreement?

Yes I would, and have offered that but he has declined my offer. He requests the agreement say he picks up at school on his Fridays and if by chance he has to work that I do the pickups and he lets me know. Thus if he has to work late by chance, he utilizes me as a backup plan because then he doesn't have to pay for daycare he may or may not require.

[SuzieSunshine]

Picking the children from school means one less transition for them in the day of going to your house, then going dads. This means less interaction between the two of you, which is ultimately likely a good thing.

The courts aren't likely to care for your emotional reasoning that you like the time with the kids. The courts will care about what is in the best interests of the children. If allowing your ex the extra 2.5 hours every other week eliminates some unnecessary interaction between the two of you, eliminates multiple transitions for the kids and promotes the relationship between them and your ex by allowing them extra time, than the courts may just find it is in the kids best interests and that you were being unreasonable by not agreeing in the first place.

It appears your ex is trying to reorganize their life in a way that benefits the kids. Outside of emotions, I see no reason why this should even be an issue.

It is not one less transition because he picks up the first kid at my house on his Fridays and then goes to school and gets the other if he does early pickup. He could easily go to the school first then come to my house but he doesn't to deny me from seeing the oldest kid on his Fridays.

I have no emotional reasoning for having time for the kids. It is defined in the agreement as my time. He has chosen to tell me it is his time when he has 2 days a week when the kids are in daycare that he choses to not spend with them and keep them in daycare while I am at work. His sole purpose of reducing my time with the kids and increase his is to define days that belong to him and increase his threshold of time so that he feels he is an equal parent.

He is not reorganizing his life/kids in best interest, he is trying to decrease time with myself to gain his time when not utilizing time other days of the week that is open.