Adult Children - education expenses

[jq55]

I have been paying for my 20 year old Daughter's education expenses as per my support agreement and I have been paying my ex-wife child support in addition to the education expenses. I was under the impression that my daughter was living in residence while at school and would be returning home in the summer. I recently found out that my daughter is not living in residence. I think she is living with her older sister in her house and I don't think she has any intention of moving back with her mother in the summer. When I requested a current address for my daughter and confirmation that she is moving home in the summer my ex-wife refused to give it to me, saying it was none of my business as I was not paying her living expense, just her tuition and books, so it was my daughter personal business where she lived. My mother gave my daughter a large sum of money in the fall to help pay for her education expenses so I assumed she was using that to cover her living expenses as I was paying for her books and tuition.

I think she probably gave the money to her sister and husband to use a downpayment on the house they bought and is living there.

Do I have to continue to pay child support to my ex-wife if my daughter is no longer living there?

[logicalvelocity]

jq55,

Do I have to continue to pay child support to my ex-wife if my daughter is no longer living there?

I believe you would have to establish the fact that your daughter will not be returning to the mother’s home when university recess’s to end payable child support to the other parent.

I think you could gather some interesting information by conducting a search of your daughter’s driver’s license and perhaps obtain an address change of your daughter to that of her sister’s home.


Why not ask your daughter directly what her future plans are such as where she will be living.


lv

[jq55]

Thank you for the advice. I haven't spoken to my daughter in 3 years. My ex-wife has done an excellent job of turning all three of my children against me by telling them a steady stream of lies over the past 13 years. It all came to a head about 3 years ago when she had me served again to try and get more child support. In her claim she listed a bunch of lies against me which I was easlily able to prove were false. However in an attempt to get more support she and her lawyer convinced my three children to complete statements that were full of lies too. The end result was that the judge threw out her claim to past child support and put strict limits on how much and for how long these 3 adult children would get support. The older 2 are now finished getting child support and I am still paying for my youngest daughter, she is 20. In the end it destroyed the relationship I have with 3 children so I haven't had any contact with them since. My ex-wife has lied before to continue to get support she is not entitled to but it is difficult to prove it when the children will lie too.

Not sure what to do now. I have no problem paying my fair share for my daughter education however I don't think my ex-wife should be allowed to profit from it.

[logicalvelocity]

jq55,

as you mentioned,

Not sure what to do now. I have no problem paying my fair share for my daughter education however I don't think my ex-wife should be allowed to profit from it.

If it was me I would definitely search the MTO database and other government databases and clarify for an address change of the individual on their vehicle, driver's license and perhaps OHIP card.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/catalogue.htm


The Ontario government also has electronic kiosks set up in malls that provide a similar service.

I believe I read a case at canlaw where the adult child unilaterially severed the relationship with their parent and as a result the court held that parent was not responsible for their post secondary university expense.

If I think of the name of the case, I will post the link.

lv

[logicalvelocity]

jq55,

I couldn't find the case I was thinking of earlier. However, I did across this case on the subject.


In Pepin v. Jung, 2003 CanLII 2048 (ON S.C.), de Sousa J. reviewed a significant number of earlier authorities on the subject. Paragraph 15 - 33 of the judgment:

http://beta.canlii.org/eliisa/highli...anlii2048.html



In your situation, I suspect if you could prove that your adult daughter has indeed moved out of the mother's home to that of the sisters and lives there when university adjourns for the summer, suggests that she has withdrawn from parential control of the mother and therefore no periodic child support would be payable to the mother along with post secondary expenses for your daughter.


lv

[jq55]

Support for adult children

I have been trying unsuccessfully for the past 3 months to establish where my 20 year old daughter actually lives. My ex-wife refuses to tell me and I have no contact with my daughter so I am still paying my ex-wife support on top of my daughters school expenses.

What should I do?

[logicalvelocity]

jq55,


Hire a bonded PI.


lv

[jq55]

new development

I got a letter from my ex-wife on Friday informing me that my daughter is dropping out of full-time studies for nursing after her first year. She doesn't want to be a nurse now. She has enrolled in a correspondence course to finish her B.A. over 5 more years at 4 credits a semester. I don't mind paying for my daughters tuition and books but is my ex-wife still entitled to child support payments?

[jq55]

any suggestions

Further to my last posting, any suggestions?

[FL_Needs_To_Change]

http://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcsc/doc...anlii1264.html

In this case the child worked and had part time studies, but had all kinds of things he was able to afford and wanted increased support to cover his school costs but had unilaterally decided to have no contact with dad. Judge felt that since he was able to work and able to contribute to his school but hadn't and had not provided attempts at grants/loans etc, the judge terminated the support.

http://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcsc/doc...anlii5780.html

In this case, There is no evidence the son is unable to obtain the necessaries of life. While there is some evidence he has financial difficulties, I am not satisfied it is sufficient to meet the onus upon the applicant to show he is unable to withdraw from the charge of his parents. Many students attend university without the financial support of their parents

or this one, http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc...02abqb976.html


From the material, it would appear the applicant is remarkably independent and self-reliant. She has withdrawn from the care of her mother. She has worked and has had no difficulty getting jobs. She is certainly motivated and would appear to be on a very successful employment track. She is anxious to complete her post-secondary education as quickly as possible. As a result, she chose to continue her education and worked right through the summer when clearly she could have made a significant economic contribution to her education without losing an appreciable amount of time. This is not a case where the course of education is four or five years or more. It was intended to be something in the order of one year, much of which had been concluded by the time she made her application.

From the material before me, I would find that the applicant has a very good ability to provide some significant support for herself. I would find that she has had no significant connection with her biological father for almost all of her life. I would find she has deliberately decided she will not seek any assistance from her mother, whether or not such assistance might be available is not disclosed in the evidence. I would find she has been able to maintain herself throughout her post-secondary education to a very large degree. I would find had she taken a very modest student loan, which loan would have been readily repaid in short order from her earning ability, she would not have needed to look to her biological father after all these years, for some assistance, even if she were entitled to do so.


For maintenance to continue the child must provide documentation on the course of study and it must be relative to ability and likelihood of success in that field. IE a child with poor past grades submitting an application to medical school is obviously beyond their abilities and the course is outside what they can successfully accomplish. The child also has to prove that they have attempted to get either loans or grants etc. Show that they had tried to acquire some form of financial help for themselves after all that is what would be expected if the parents were together, and after all they are adults, even at 20. They must also have historically provided periodic updates on their grades and academic position etc. Without this then they have not proved the onus that they must provide in order for maintenance to increase of continue for that matter.

Others of interest,

http://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcsc/doc...6bcsc1296.html

http://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcsc/doc...anlii1264.html

http://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcsc/doc...6bcsc1051.html

http://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcca/doc...canlii250.html

[jq55]

child support for mother

Although I don't agree with my daughters decsion to drop out of full-time college to take corespondence course, and I have told her so in a letter, I am willing to pay 100% of the cost of those courses for her. The problem is her mother still wants to get full child support for her, as she considers this full-time school, and I'm not even sure my daugther lives with her.

[FL_Needs_To_Change]

I would file a motion for exactly that.
Get documentation that the daughter no longer lives at home, is self supportive and in essance is no longer a "Child of the marriage" and offer to pay her "actual" school related costs upon provision of proof/receipts BUT seek to have CS to mom terminated.

You seem to have a strong case to have CS terminated IF the daughter is indeed no longer living at home and has supported herself, even if living with another relative.

[logicalvelocity]

jq55,

Maybe i missed it somewhere but is your child employed in any capacity. If so it is more than reasonable that they could also be held accountable to contribute to their own schooling costs.

lv

[jq55]

Adult Children

My ex-wife and daughter refuse to tell me if she is working, where she is living, etc. She says according to our agreement all she has to disclose is that she is in school full-time. However, after further investigation i found out the correspondence courses are self directed, she can start and finish whenever she wants, no structured semesters at all. Also, in order to graduate she requires 120 credits, which at 4 courses per 6 months it will take her a total of 6 years to finish a 4 year program.

I also have to disclose my income every year and based on my raise of last year in her last letter to me my ex demanded an increase in her support even though she is now working even less hours and therefore I have to pay an even larger prorated amount of the education expenses.

[FL_Needs_To_Change]

You will learn alot about how courts handle adult children in school and what is expected of both the custodial and non custodial parents. These cases will also shed some light on various aspects, like if mom provides no information, and no supporting documentation. Also how not being kept consistantly informed is also addrerssed. Read through a few of the links I posted, you'll understand alot more on how this tends to play out.