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  • Withdrawals from the bank

    I separated in 2014 and am working with former spouse on a separation agreement. She is poring through bank statements going back ten years. She wants explanations for each withdrawal from an ATM. That's tough to do. I can account for some, but for most I canít.

    For the period in question both of us were gainfully employed. She is of the view that unless I can account for the money she'll charge me with fraud.

    Do I need to defend/explain each withdrawal?

    Thank you.

  • #2
    Is this business related?

    If its all personal spending then it is considered joint and belonged to both of you. It wouldn't matter who spent what or when prior to separation.

    Comment


    • #3
      The important information to exchange is the exchange of financial information Form 13 in Ontario.

      Here is a link to the Forms in Ontario: Family Law Rules Forms — Ontario Court Services

      What your finacial status was on date you became married (what you brought to the marrigae) both debt and credit. Then you look at your total financial situation at date of Seperation.

      Look on this Forum for more info. There is lots of information shared here.

      Like stated before if it was just personal then no you do not have to provide all that info. Unless you were moving money for yourself in anticipation of your seperation.

      Occasional withdraws for casual spending do not need to be justified.

      Comment


      • #4
        10 years is way to far. The CRA can only audit you for 7 years. Can she account for all of her withdrawls? Also the amounts in question have to be material. Will the police really charge you with fraud because you cannot recall why you took $40 out of the bank five years ago?

        She's likely looking to see if you've squirreled away cash, or wants to trick you into saying that you went to a strip joint with the guys so she has an excuse to get mad.

        The better comebacks would be something like "remember the time I took you out for dinner and paid cash?, or we went to the movies, or I saw our son when he was in university and gave him some spending cash."

        Comment


        • #5
          adding - my one bro-in-law had an ex who cleaned out the non-registered accounts a few months prior to separating. Those kind of transactions are the ones that people are usually held accountable for. He never did recover the money, but the judge awarded him a disportionate (increased) share of the remaining matrimonial assets in compensation.

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          • #6
            LOL at charging you with fraud. Unless you are talking about a corporation where you were both shareholders, or a business partnership, she can't do jack. And even if it was corporate funds all she can do is a complaint, but it is up to the police or tax authorities to determine if there sufficient reason to lay a charge. And given that the CRA has likely already reviewed your tax filings and not attempted to charge you, I'd say there is a good chance that they don't see any irregularities.

            Let her say whatever she wants. She is just making threats to intimidate and create an unbalanced bargaining position.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thank you for the responses.

              To add, there is no business money. Nor, is there any change to the withdrawal pattern. There haven't been any spikes in withdrawals in the period before or after decision to separate.

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              • #8
                So the ex is simply questioning personal expenses from your own chequing account? Yeah, tell her you can't remember or it must have been something relating to the house/family etc.

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                • #9
                  She's blowing smoke.

                  I gather this is a joint account. Then I guess the ones you cannot account are the ones she made and now both of you are going to be charged with fraud LOL!

                  The burden of proof lies with her; don't sweat it the dragon will stop once ignored.

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                  • #10
                    Ridiculous. My ATM withdrawals go to my wallet. From there, I'd have no idea... the corner fruit market? library fines? transit tokens? I assume she is also poking at credit card charges? (outside of bills/taxes that cannot be pad via CC, CC is probably more than 98% of spending for me)

                    And as GM said ... who's to say those weren't HER withdrawals.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Intentional depletion of matrimonial assets is an interesting topic. She would have to show malicious and or intentional actions on your part. Uphill slope for sure.

                      If the two of you were merely big spenders then that's water under the bridge. I would think that her lawyer would focus primarily on assets at and since separation.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        For the period in question both of us were gainfully employed. She is of the view that unless I can account for the money she'll charge me with fraud.
                        Tell her that you spent most of the money on hookers and blow...lol.

                        Seriously though...like others have said, its probably something you can ignore unless we're talking about very large sums of money spent on something unusual.

                        For instance, there have been cases where there has been unequitable distribution of equalization payments due to massive squandering of marital funds...ie, serious gambling addictions, serious drug addictions but that wouldn't apply to normal withdrawals made from a checking/savings account.

                        What is she trying to suggest you spent the money on?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thank you everyone.

                          My take is it's all about relevance to the issues in dispute. There aren't any. My approach will be to see the threat as a pressure tactic.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Short of dispensing of marital assets there's little reason to spend much time or money examining the finances this way.

                            It's useful for the financial statement to be able to say that when you married your net worth was X, when you separated it was Y.

                            That's part of NFP.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mike62 View Post
                              I separated in 2014 and am working with former spouse on a separation agreement. She is poring through bank statements going back ten years.

                              She is wasting her time and her lawyers by going back 10 years - this will not do her any good. All that matters now is your net worth at time of separation. Courts will use the average of the last 3 years at most.


                              She wants explanations for each withdrawal from an ATM. That's tough to do. I can account for some, but for most I canít.


                              What she wants Vs what she has a legal right to expect of you are two separate matters .... I would simply ignore these demands.

                              For the period in question both of us were gainfully employed. She is of the view that unless I can account for the money she'll charge me with fraud.

                              This is obviously a pressure tactic to wear you down into to signing some lopsided agreement - charging someone with fraud is both expensive to prove and mostly unheard of in family court. Unless you two own some kind of business together? (Ask Arabian about how difficult fraud is to prove in court - and she had tons of serious evidence).

                              Do I need to defend/explain each withdrawal?

                              Absolutely not! this is a simple matter of intimidation. The onus is on her to prove any wrongdoing on your part (ATM withdrawals ? really lol) Ignore this BS and let her lawyer waste all of HER money on this ridiculous claim.

                              Your Ex is attempting to push you into a defensive mind-set, where you feel the need to explain your every action ... this is a fairly common tactic.
                              Legal wise, she is blowing smoke ...

                              Thank you.
                              You're welcome

                              Comment

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