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  • #16
    Very good information ByMyself. I really appreciate your input!

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    • #17
      BTW..... e-mails are in-admissable in court

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      • #18
        Limer - How can that be? And where are you getting that information? Do you have a source that I can review?

        The request to admit includes "document". An email is a document. I can't imagine that an email is not admissible in court if you have authenticated them. Further, some have already been included in affidavits (as exhibits attached to affidavits) and are in the continuing record and trial brief.

        Please explain....

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        • #19
          What do you mean by that limer - could you explain that a bit more? Thanks

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          • #20
            @ Serene - I was going to mention one thing about the concerns with email threading and how in can become confusing for others to follow.

            The requests are being used to simply get the documents admitted into your evidence binder. You don't have to necessarily ask the judge to read the entire emails and understand from that what is going on.

            Instead, you may use an affidavit (or testimony) to explain the scenario around the relevant facts in the email, and quote from the email. The material you quote from has to be in that binder for all parties to reference. So you do have quite a bit of control in how the information is organized and presented to the judge.

            More than anything - your time in court will be about how well your/ their evidence is presented. Their request to admit may not make sense entirely, but remember it is being used only to introduce the raw materials, to later be used to support/ back up their statements. If anything is incomplete or unclear, refuse to admit based on that, and ask for better versions.

            In my case, I am using timelines to help explain relationships between when emails were sent/ received/ cas calls/ police/ telephone calls, etc. - to help clearly establish critical relationships between events. In my case, the action/ reaction scenario with the ex is a relevant pattern I need to point out. The evidence I reference in these timelines has to all be in my book(s) of evidence. To look at each piece individually, it may not seem entirely relevant, but when carefully assembled for a judge, I think it will be entirely clear.

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            • #21
              The same as serving materials, you can't serve a pdf court document as an attachment to an email unless it is accepted via Rule 6(19) of the Family Law Rules allows that service of a document may be proved by an acceptance of service written by the party’s lawyer. I've had both scenarios where e-mail wasn't admissable, and where e-mail was accepted under the quoted rule.

              Your ex's lawyer is trying to get around all the legal requirements that he would otherwise have to go through (meaning to have a judge rule on it's admissability). If you accept/authenticicate as per his request then it can be admitted into evidence which he is planning on using to his advantage, not yours.

              Hence you need to figure out where he might be going with it all, and see if you can twist it back onto him.

              Otherwise.... throw up "red flags" to get around it. Respond in writing (not email) something to the effective that you are ignoring his request to admit. Cite reasons in point form.
              1.0 The full context of the entire email thread is incomplete. This includes:
              1.1 Blacked out portions of text
              1.2 Senders names blacked out
              1.3 Receivers names blacked out
              1.4 Portions of threaded conversations missing
              2.0 It is unclear from the list provided on the form what the Author wants authenticicated.

              If he goes to get a judge to admit it then you have notified to him your reasons. In the meantime he can either be more definitive in his request to admit or take it to a judge.

              While some email might be admitted at motions stage and used, the evidence requirements for trial are a lot more stringent.
              Last edited by limer; 11-19-2013, 02:16 PM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Serene View Post
                The request to admit includes "document". An email is a document. I can't imagine that an email is not admissible in court if you have authenticated them. Further, some have already been included in affidavits (as exhibits attached to affidavits) and are in the continuing record and trial brief.

                Please explain....
                You've answered your own question here serena

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                • #23
                  Thank you all for the assistance. I have a few more questions for Requests to Admit:

                  How do you answer request for admits that contain compound sentences? i.e. "Susie went to the store on 31 March and bought a new car". If only part of it is true, do you just say false and state reason "not true" in the form?

                  I am asking because the request to admit are very poorly done. I know that the other party must be writing them themselves now without the lawyer even reviewing them. I'm sure this is to save costs, which is irrelevant in the bigger picture, but I do want to point out that we are not being difficult and that it is next to impossible to answer these questions as they have them.

                  Some other issues:

                  The facts have wrong dates, but perhaps the rest of the text is correct within the numbered line item.

                  A lot of the facts are subjective, i.e. Susie was ecstatic that your wife called your mother.

                  Some are about third parties within the household, but seem to be irrelevant and personal in nature, i.e, Susie failed grade 2 (Susie is not a child of the marriage but a step child). Can we refuse to admit this based on personal information? I suspect the Request to Admit is trying to be used to make Susie out to be a bad kid which poorly influences the children of the marriage...

                  Any help you could provide in answering these questions would be appreciated. We don't feel that there is reason to answer some of these questions, especially about other children within the home. Specifically, because it is priveleged information and the other parent of the child has not consented to release this information.

                  Lastly, most of the facts that we are requested to admit again are very poorly done. It is difficult to even determine what is being said or asked in many of the line items. It almost appears if the English is not the first language of the person writing them and therefore difficult to even figure out what the true meaning of the sentence is.

                  All your thoughts and opinions welcome!

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                  • #24
                    Thanks to all for very good descriptions and advice. I am making this thread a sticky.

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                    • #25
                      What is a sticky and where do I find them?

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                      • #26
                        Stickies are valuable or important posts that will always be at the top of a forum. IE they are "stuck" there, they don't get pushed down the list by new posts.

                        Primarily these are threads that have very useful information about self-rep from experienced posters. Also, the forum rules are in a sticky in each forum.

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                        • #27
                          For the love of God, I am more confused than ever having reread the request to admit:

                          How to respond to compound statements (do we refuse to admit based on the reason: compound statements?)

                          Subjective statements: So and so is happy or mad or sad about a certain event.

                          What if we cant remember stupid silly crap like how many times the kids packed their lunch in a certain month?

                          OOOOO I need a drink. Or two. Or twenty seven.

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                          • #28
                            How do you answer request for admits that contain compound sentences? i.e. "Susie went to the store on 31 March and bought a new car". If only part of it is true, do you just say false and state reason "not true" in the form?
                            Statement not accurate.

                            If you want to admit parts of statements or to correct statements:

                            Statement not accurate. Please see line xx of applicant/ respondent's Request to Admit dated <date> and put the correct statement in yours.

                            A lot of the facts are subjective, i.e. Susie was ecstatic that your wife called your mother.
                            Applicant/ respondent not qualified to comment on state of mind of Susie

                            Some are about third parties within the household, but seem to be irrelevant and personal in nature, i.e, Susie failed grade 2 (Susie is not a child of the marriage but a step child).
                            Email the other parent, if they do not consent, use that as reason.

                            No legal consent given to applicant/ respondent to release of information regarding Susie..

                            Keep your email as back up for your reason.

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                            • #29
                              Thanks every one for the reponses. The information I've obtained thus far is 100% accurate. And FYI, I've verified some of the advice with officers of the court and its bang on.

                              So here is my question now: If individual's are outright lying and denying statements in a request to admit, and these are simple statements that cannot be interpreted any other way, what do you do with this? For instance: "You commenced a relationship with Buddy in May 2009". And you have a document that this person recently provided to an authority that says "I commenced a relationship with Buddy in May 2009" and is signed and dated by the party (very recently signed and dated). Do you bring this up in court at the trial and ask what the confusion is since she put it in writing two months ago but denies it now?

                              Let me give you a little more background to the above (and this is just one example of concrete evidence to an untruth): The party is not acknowledging the relationship or commonlaw status because they were not honest when filing their taxes. They stand to lose thousands of dollars in CTB and income tax refund they have already collected. While family court is not the place to address income tax fraud, I believe this is relevant to point out that they WILL lie in court documents/to the court for monetary reasons. Further, they WILL lie in court documents/to the court to pursue their own self interests and to avoid personal repercussions.

                              Am I on the right path here?

                              I have at least 50 very factual statements like this. These are things that the individual does know but has denied them as being true. These are big things: like who the party lives with, when they commenced their cohabiting with their partner, denying very big life events, and texts that they probably didn't know we were screen shooting all along.

                              I also have documents that I don't think they know are in our possession such as personal and medical health information that pertains to the child that was handwritten and signed by the other party that actually lays out these statements that were denied word for word.

                              Again, while it would be nice if the party didn't evade income tax by being dishonest, that is another issue that is not of primary importance. I'm hoping that come trial this can all be teased out and a judge will see that A. money motivates this person to be dishonest (so much so they will not be truthful in court/legal paperwork and I'd like to go as far as to lead a judge down the garden path to determine that they will lie about appropriate access to and with the children, and deny dad access time with the kids to promote her financial situation (40% rule of course, and btw we have this in writing too that the percentage of access shall never change!!).

                              I would appreciate feedback and thoughts. I learn a lot from others and gain insight on where and how to focus my thoughts.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                my 2 cents on what you just wrote:

                                You aren't going to be able to "lead a judge down the garden path" as they [judges] have seen it all, time and time again.

                                You cannot spring things on the court "Jerry Springer" style.

                                I get that you are trying to discredit your ex. If you want to do that keep things short, to the point and most importantly - relevant, accurate and provable.

                                I don't think it would be too far out there to say that judges expect people to lie in court. Therefore I'd recommend making your point and moving on.

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